Supreme Court says police may search even if arrest invalid »
Posted by: MyWayOnNow 3 months ago176 CommentsReflectReport this Story
The Supreme Court affirmed Wednesday that police have the power to conduct searches and seize evidence, even when done during an arrest that turns out to have violated state law.
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tanglang
April 24, 2008, 7:34 a.m.So it seems that the case involved was one where police arrested a man for driving with a suspended license. They article said that the law requires that the police just give him a citation and let him go. I have a problem with that. I have never heard of police allowing someone without a license to drive away. If that is the case then the bigger problem here is that law and the fact that it needs to be changed immediatly.
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Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)mackiemesser
April 24, 2008, 9:01 a.m.'let him go' does not necessarily mean let him drive away. I had an acquaintance call me to pick him up after he was given a ticket for driving on an expired license. He was let go but not to drive away. The officer told him to park his car and get a cab or have someone pick him up.
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Blackacereturn
April 24, 2008, 1:18 p.m.WOW! Here we go! I knew this was coming, what does the common man have left to protect him? These guys keep eroding the laws of the land what will we be when they are done? I was already afraid of the courts in regards to the presidential elections now this. Do we have any rights left as citizens?
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libsRfunny
April 24, 2008, 1:52 p.m."...what does the common man have left to protect him?"
I don't know what screwed up part of the country you come from, but where I come from, the "common man" doesn't drive on a suspended license and possess crack cocaine.
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Grrr
April 24, 2008, 2:11 p.m.Huh. And here all along I'd thought you lived in the US.
Because in the US, EVERYBODY is guilty of SOMETHING.
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tanglang
April 24, 2008, 4:08 p.m.So driving without a license and possession of crack are the same thing a speeding? Or parking in a red zone?
Is that what you are saying?
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saintetienne
April 24, 2008, 4:26 p.m."Because in the US, EVERYBODY is guilty of SOMETHING."
Very true, Grrrr. Why, you yourself are guilty of dropping out of school, becoming a fat, useless turd of a person, sucking up our tax dollars by living on the government dole, then having the audacity to come onto a website and blog as if you actually have something relevant and intelligent to say.
Fortunately for you, the U.S. doesn't prosecute and incarcerate people for being do-nothing, welfare-collecting morons.
Yet.
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HannibalBarca
April 24, 2008, 4:30 p.m.NUMPYU : careful, they might come for you as you fit that description to a t a capital T..ROTFLMAO
Ohh NUMPTY you must keep Wendy's in stitches with your attempts at reason..carry on ohhh dense one LMAO
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Blackacereturn
April 24, 2008, 3:09 p.m.And you assume that I am from such a place why? It's obvious you haven't been black while driving in America so I understand your ignorance. As for where I live it's called Westchester NY kook it up. I don't expect you to understand the ramifications of what just happen because well you live where you live, but I tend to think about others that are less fortunate than I am. Even with the previous law in place they were way too many violations of people rights imagine how it will be now! Last year alone we released almost 300 innocent people from prisons, the worse being a man that sat there for 25 years because of attorney client privileges. The true murderer told his lawyers that an innocent man is taking the fall but his lawyers couldn't do or say anything until he died in prison for committing other murders. The lawyers said over the years they try to give hints and were shocked at the callas nature of those who could do something.
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libsRfunny
April 24, 2008, 4:10 p.m."It's obvious you haven't been black while driving in America so I understand your ignorance."
Oh yes, the poor victim mentality. How do you know I'm not black? You never heard of white people being pulled over for driving in known drug neighborhoods?
Obama has an empty pew in his church for you! LOL
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libsRfunny
April 24, 2008, 7:26 p.m."You are either uninformed or callous."
Neither. Just stating facts.
But, I see the prejudiced libs are out in force. LOL
You apparently never lived in an urban area.
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Blackacereturn
April 24, 2008, 6:25 p.m.poor victim...ok whatever that's the truth if it's too much for you too bad. Jackass, blacks get pulled over while not driving in known drug neighborhood, in your instant there is a valid reason, in mine there were none other than I drive a BMW! As I said I live in Westchester they are no known drug dens there! Why do I even get into it with you LibsR you are a known idiot, it's not like you will ever become enlighten or learn anything new you are too busy looking for a reason to flap your gums!
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libsRfunny
April 24, 2008, 7:29 p.m."Jackass, blacks get pulled over while not driving in known drug neighborhood..."
Well, jackass, whites get pulled over, too. So do HIspanics and Asians. But, go ahead and pretend to be a helpless victim. To be called a "known idiot" by a moron like you is a high compliment LOL
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tanglang
April 24, 2008, 4:13 p.m.Spike Lee said it bet when he said "Slavery ended 137 years ago. Move the F on! Stop blaming the white man for your shortcomings."
I really doubt you have ever been stopped just for being black. Maybe if you are over 60 years old then Ok. Perhaps when you first started driving that happened, but not now.
You sound like one of those guys who says that black officers are not black, but blue.
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walden3
April 24, 2008, 4:20 p.m.I can tell by your comments that you either don't have any black friends or if you do you don't talk to them.
Which is it tanglang?
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Blackacereturn
April 24, 2008, 6:45 p.m.I remember the shock on my white cow workers faces when I told them a cops stop me and pat me down outside the building we all worked in, their first question was, what did you do. I was in a pinstripe navy blue suit, he told me that they had been a rash of crimes in the neighborhood and they are just being cautious. I had to take her down to the front desk so the guard can confirm what he saw, before she believe me.
So maybe Lib and tang has a point, how can you even begin to imagine this happing if it has never happen to you or anyone you know!
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libsRfunny
April 24, 2008, 7:30 p.m.White "cow" workers? Oh, now I see the problem. And you call me an "idiot. LOL"
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Blackacereturn
April 24, 2008, 9:13 p.m.You are an idiot if you can't recognize that I double tap the (w) but if you think this stops you from being a known idiot it doesn't. If your reaction to what is obviously a simple mistake note only are you a known idiot but a myopic and petty idiot also!
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walden3
April 24, 2008, 8:08 p.m.Unless you're a dairy farmer I don't like the "white cow" thing.
I'm white, but just to really think and absorb the fact that "separate but equal" was the law of the land during many black folks lives is mind boggling to me. Black folks get a raw deal from the American criminal justice system. 1/3 in jail or court. Mandatory sentencing, crack sentencing, the death penalty and my favorite plea bargains. So many people plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit that something needs to be done.
None of us is color blind though.
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tanglang
April 24, 2008, 9:36 p.m.Waldem, Your comment was absolutely rediculous. What about my comment tells you that I don't know any black folks? For that matter, how many white dudes that don't know any black people can quote Spike Lee flicks? Has it ever occured to you that not all black folks think that they are oppressed by racist cops? That believe that in 2008 America everybody truly gets a fair chance? Perhaps you are associating with the wrong kind of people?
Oh and Walden, mandatory sentencing affects whites too. So does the death penalty.
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AtheismIsReality
April 25, 2008, 7:12 a.m.Do you agree with the rest of the sentiments in "Ode to New York" from "The 25th Hour?"
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tanglang
April 25, 2008, 9:12 p.m.AIR, I knew I you were good for something. While I do not agree with all of what he said, I found some of his points to be very well put. Also, that movie is on my top 25 list of best movies of all time.
(I really am thrilled that you knew what I was talking about.)
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 4:59 p.m.i'm WHITE.. i get stopped on a regular basis when driving with my Puerto Rican friends, an thats in S Florida..
it was a real hoot flying with one of them right after thanksgiving of last year....
course i'll admit it didn't help matters that he had his MC "club" colors on ....
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Blackacereturn
April 24, 2008, 9:22 p.m.Question is, were you and your Puerto Rican friend breaking the law at the time you were stopped? Please don't get me wrong here, I am not in any way implying that only blacks get stop by the cops, if you think that I am, I may have given you too much credit. I took it for granted that since I am black, you would know that I can only speak to my experience not others.
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amazed
April 24, 2008, 5:19 p.m.here in CT, dwb is an infraction that is frequently enforced -- primarily on those minorities that have the audacity to drive decent, late-model cars that are not the bottom of the line.
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Blackacereturn
April 24, 2008, 6:37 p.m.Tang - Walk a mile in my shoes first then speak. Until then you are Hush! At 19 my entire soccer team were lined up against a wall while walking back to our bus after playing in an all white neighborhood I am 31, that not that long ago. I have been pulled over about 10 times in my adult life not for speeding 3 of those times i wasn't given a ticket the other 7 were thrown out by the Judge because the officer never showed.
I missed a full 7 days of running my company because they don't hold court on weekends. I am not asking anyone to feel sorry for me I am making them aware of what just happen! But your eternal sunshine will come to an end soon! I hope it never happens to you and you have to watch your child cry in fear for her dad.
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tanglang
April 24, 2008, 9:29 p.m.Oh hush up and stop it! And screw your shoes, mine are just fine. At 16 I was stopped, cuffed and taken to the station for walking to school. I apparently fit the description of someone who had robbed a house near by. I was finally allowed to go to school after they caught the guy breaking into another house. Did I cry about it? Do I claim that I am being held down because of my race? No! I man up and live my life. I have been pulled over roughly 25 times and have gotten about 15 tickets. Each for speeding. The other ten times I was "Being suspicious". You know a few of those cops are friends of mine now? Not a bad group of guys.
One of them happens to be an officer who shot and killed a childhood friend of mine about 7 years ago.
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saintetienne
April 24, 2008, 4:37 p.m."It's obvious you haven't been black while driving in America so I understand your ignorance."
And it's obvious YOU haven't been a police officer in America, who risk their lives daily in a jungle of armed criminals and illegal drug users. They're all too aware of the staggering statistics detailing crime - and race. They know who is committing the crimes. They know damn well who to look for.
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walden3
April 24, 2008, 5:37 p.m.So if you are a young black man driving a nice car with shiny wheels....LOOK OUT!
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Blackacereturn
April 24, 2008, 9:53 p.m.And who are they? If we speak of hard numbers they are more whites in Prisons than blacks, that debunks your argument. Whenever you see this symbol % after a number it's most often used to perpetrate a lie.
If blacks make up 12% of the nation any number of blacks in Prison over using % will make it seem like a large number than it really is.
You have 300 million people in this country 45 million are blacks and let's say for the hell of it 200 million are whites, and say 30% of blacks commit crimes and 15% of whites do the same Let's see how the hard number plays out, 30% of 45 million =13.5 million 15% of 200 million =30 million now if i say 30% of this does that and only 15% of that does this see how easily misleading it is!
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memestryker
April 25, 2008, 12:31 a.m.An expired license is very different from a suspended one. A suspended one suggests a fairly serious violation, while an expired one is more likely just an oversight.
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walden3
April 24, 2008, 8:26 a.m.I don't like it. The police broke the law when they effected an illegal arrest. The Virginia Supreme Court agreed that the officers were law breakers when they illegally seized, handcuffed and basically kidnapped Mr. Moore.
This allows the police to pull anyone over on any pretext whatsoever, illegally seize you, prevent you from going about your business and search you. If they find something all the better because it can be used against you.
So much for listening to the state.
This Supreme Court has never missed the opportunity to sanctify a trampling of our rights or to enable of big business.
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capecoralM
April 24, 2008, 8:38 a.m.(a) Because the founding era's statutes and common law do not support Moore's view that the Fourth Amendment was intended to incorporate statutes, this is "not a case in which the claimant can point to a 'clear answer [that] existed in 1791 and has been generally adhered to by the traditions of our society ever since,' " Atwater v.
Lago Vista, 532 U. S. 318, 345. Pp. 3â;;5.
(b) Where history provides no conclusive answer, this Court has analyzed a search or seizure in light of traditional reasonableness standards "by assessing, on the one hand, the degree to which it intrudes upon an individual's privacy and, on the other, the degree to which it is needed for the promotion of legitimate governmental interests."
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capecoralM
April 24, 2008, 8:41 a.m.On February 20, 2003, two City of Portsmouth police
officers stopped a car driven by David Lee Moore. They
had heard over the police radio that a person known as
"Chubs" was driving with a suspended license, and one of
the officers knew Moore by that nickname. The officers
determined that Moore's license was in fact suspended,
and arrested him for the misdemeanor of driving on a
suspended license, which is punishable under Virginia law
by a year in jail and a $2,500 fine, Va. Code Ann. §§18.2â;;
11, 18.2â;;272, 46.2â;;301(C) (Lexis 2005). The officers subsequently
searched Moore and found that he was carrying
16 grams of crack cocaine and $516 in cash.1 See 272 Va.
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BravoSierra
April 24, 2008, 9:22 a.m.The question is, did they have reasonable cause to conduct the search.
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newbie0420
April 24, 2008, 10:15 a.m."The question is, did they have reasonable cause to conduct the search."
Of course they did, they were arresting the guy, they HAVE to search him for their and his own protection.
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 10:25 a.m.how many times have you been searched during a traffic stop...
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 10:35 a.m.when a police officer issues you a ticket.. he has arrested you.. if you don't sign the ticket stating you will appear.. you will go to jail..
again how many times have you been searched during a routine traffic stop for a misdemeanor.. i've never been asked to step out of the car.. and i was stopped and found to have an expired license.. and the cop let me drive away...
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DaneL
April 24, 2008, 10:39 a.m.I've never been placed under arrest for a citation. If they can't search him/her they could bring drugs, weapons or anything into jail with them.
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BravoSierra
April 24, 2008, 1:31 p.m.the search has to be relevant to the probable cause. thus, if you were going to be hauled to jail, your person could be searched because it is relevant to safety in the jail. However, he could not go search your home or your place of work looking for evidence that you were a criminal of the state in some undefined way. What you see this administration and Court putting into place are the pieces required for a police state. Look at the list: provisions for martial law in violation of the Constitution that have been quietly repealed recently, suspension of habeus corpus, etc. This isn't about you fellas stupid drivers licenses. It's about creating a fascist state bit by bit.
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amazed
April 24, 2008, 3:41 p.m.the erosion of the 4th amendment started well before this administration and has been zealously cheered along by each administration since -- including the Clinton era.
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memestryker
April 25, 2008, 12:52 a.m.The fact that they can seize property and buy or sell it for income for the police and discounts for individual officers breeds corruption--and hurts the elderly and disabled, who depend on caregivers and don't always have control of their own property as a result. I was floored when that got the SCOTUS nod.
BravoSierra, you are right on target--this is happening irrespective of political party. They also listen to the U.N., which is just a bunch of thugs from police states, and also the International Association of Chiefs of Police (whose symposiums are funded by our own Joyce Foundation). Rich bullies like Michael Bloomberg, George Soros, and others all are pushing for a police state in the U.S., and using their own money to make it happen. No joke.
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walden3
April 25, 2008, 7:11 a.m.Speaking of police state who is pushing the national ID?
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memestryker
April 26, 2008, 1:19 p.m.walden3, It looks to me like both major political parties are pushing the national ID through slightly different means. They sneak up on it with various seemingly innocuous registration programs (national driver's license, ammo encoding and serialization, voter registration, etc.) and a growing number of linked databases.
Few states don't use the social security number for ID, although "legally" it cannot be used for ID, and says so right on the card!
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BravoSierra
April 25, 2008, 12:06 p.m.Libs...ur just too uneducated on the law to know any better.
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flyonthewallzz
April 24, 2008, 5:08 p.m.Not too long ago, I was driving home from my shop.
Somehow I had bumped my turn signal indicator in such a way that my headlights did not come on. The console was lit up and I have not been able to repeat it.
The flashing lights came on behind me at a red light, I thought they needed to get past me so I pulled over across the intersection.
It turned out that it was me they where flashing their lights at.
They watched as I flicked the headlight switch back and forth a couple of times.
The time it took for them to go over my documents was probably not as long as it seemed.
They then asked me if I had any drugs or guns in my truck, and if it would be okay to search.
I said sure. At one point I stepped up to the cab to flip the seats up for them. Bad Idea, so I stood back with my hands on the tailgate as instructed.
They thanked me for my cooperation and let me go.
This happened in front of the shop I get my morning coffee from.
I wonder what they think of me now.
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 5:32 p.m.Bad Idea, so I stood back with my hands on the tailgate as instructed.
--
perhaps the bad idea was letting them search...
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walden3
April 24, 2008, 5:40 p.m.Never consent to a search. Assert your fourth and fifth amendment rights. Never consent. It's a responsibility of being a citizen that you put the state to the test, the burden is almost always on the state.
Jack-booted pigs. They know better and they still take advantage of people.
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flyonthewallzz
April 24, 2008, 5:51 p.m.Walden I have had the courage to speak my convictions to Judges Questions asked for jury duty.
At the time my cojones had retracted.
I did not start to drive until I was 42 so my perspective is skewed.
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 6:21 p.m.to do so in florda.. is PROBABLE CAUSE FOR A SEARCH.... just the refusal has been court tested as probable cause.. and to refuse WILL GET YOUR CAR TOWED TO AN IMPOUND YARD FOR A THOROUGH SEARCH...
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walden3
April 24, 2008, 8:11 p.m.Assert your rights and let the court sort it out. Either way they get to search your car, but at least your objection is stated. Without other factors at play what you describe sounds unconstitutional. It would be in Mass., but our state constitution offers greater protection then the federal.
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newbie0420
April 24, 2008, 10:33 a.m.Once, when I got arrested for a suspended license....
Turns out Cook County can't do much right. I got a ticket for no proof of insurance (left wallet at home), showed up in court and provided proof.
Almost two years later, which was the next time I got pulled over, to my surprise the officer told me "hate to do this buddy, but I gotta arrest ya, your license is suspended"
He cuffed me, asked me if I had any weapons or needles in my pockets, patted me down, then went on to search my car.
All because someone in the clerks office filed my ticket wrong.
Luckily when I went to court, provided proof of insurance for the past six years and explained to the judge what happened, he let me go, put I was still searched and understand exactly why.
What if he didn't search me, I had a gun and pulled it out in the back seat and blew his brains out?
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 10:37 a.m.you got arrested because there was a WARRANT For your arrest..
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newbie0420
April 24, 2008, 11:07 a.m.LOL
No there wasn't, my license was simply suspended because I failed to get SR22 insurance for a "no insurance" ticket.
I had been driving on it for over a year without even knowing.
There was never a warrant out for me but feel free to make things up....
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 11:42 a.m.Almost two years later, which was the next time I got pulled over, to my surprise the officer told me "hate to do this buddy, but I gotta arrest ya, your license is suspended"
He cuffed me, asked me if I had any weapons or needles in my pockets, patted me down, then went on to search my car.
All because someone in the clerks office filed my ticket wrong
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if it appeared you didn't show up in court..yes they suspended your license and a bench warrant was issued.. ..
been there done that...
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newbie0420
April 24, 2008, 12:10 p.m.No that's not what happened at all.
For some reason the courts filed my ticket wrong and said I didn't have insurance. In Illinois they make you get SR22 insurance when this happens.
Since I never got anything telling me I needed it I never got it, Cook County then suspended my license.
I could have gone into a police station, given them my name and let them run my records and NOT get arrested, but i couldn't DRIVE because my license was SUSPENDED.
AGAIN, there was never a warrant for my arrest, so get over it and quit making things up.
Do you get it now???
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 12:18 p.m.you made it appear as if you hadn't shown for a court appearance..
the point is you still seem to condone a police state.. where you are subject to search at any time for anything....
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newbie0420
April 24, 2008, 12:27 p.m.LOL
Now you're putting words in my mouth, get real.
Here's a quote of mine from this thread:
Now if they arrested him for driving on a suspended license and went and searched his house, I could understand all this worry, but it appears this is buisness as normal.
I may be looking at it differently because in Illinois you get arrested for driving on a suspended license, or at least I did.
If you continue to put words in my mouth and make assumptions about me you should not expect any more replies from me, thanks.
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tanglang
April 24, 2008, 4:19 p.m.Newbie,
Cook County can kiss my ass. Their clerk is a certified retard. I recommend that everybody stay the f outta there.
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capecoralM
April 24, 2008, 2:41 p.m.How many times were you dealing crack and driving on a suspended license when you were pulled over?
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 4:05 p.m.doesn't matter... without probable cause.. they cannot search me.. or you.. or anyone else either..
i want them to catch all the crooks .. but i want them to do it the right way.. according to the Constitution... which assures me the government cannot do certain things...
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tanglang
April 24, 2008, 4:24 p.m.The fact that he was driving on a suspended license gives probable cause for search in every jurisdiction I have ever worked with or lived in. If that is not the case with the jurisdiction in question, then that is the bigger problem here. Because it should be legal for OUR saftey.
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 5:36 p.m.The fact that he was driving on a suspended license gives probable cause for search in every jurisdiction I have ever worked with or lived in.
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well apparently it wasn't in this case.. according to the Virginia Supreme Court.. it was actually AGAINST VIRGINIA LAW... did you read the story..???
the Virginia legislature didn't deem it enough of a crime to warrant any more the a summons.. a traffic ticket..
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tanglang
April 24, 2008, 9:46 p.m.I did read the article. It did not sy it was against the law, it said that officers are restricted to issuing a citation. However, SCOTUS determined that if the officers feel that another crime has been comitted they can detyain the person and search the vehicle. Also, it is up to the officers to decide if Moore was a threat. If this was not his first ticket for driving with no license, then they have the power to arrest them. Was his driving record mentioned in the article? Nope. What kind of search took place? Did they ask to search and when he said no call a dog? That is legal. And if the dog tags something they then have the probably cause to search.
There are too many factors not mentoned in this article for anyone to take Moores side.
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libsRfunny
April 24, 2008, 4:15 p.m."how many times have you been searched during a traffic stop... "
A couple times.
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tanglang
April 24, 2008, 4:15 p.m."how many times have you been searched during a traffic stop"
Four times.
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 5:04 p.m.i never even been ask to get out of the car.... even with my carry gun bag strapped to the seat belt.. ... you must just look guilty..
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Will1313
April 24, 2008, 5:49 p.m.i already stated in another post.. I AM WHITE..
but i do suppose he must have meant that..
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flyonthewallzz
April 24, 2008, 5:53 p.m.No I was thinking about the color of my next truck.
I have owned 2 so far.
Both blue.
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tanglang
April 24, 2008, 9:48 p.m.I did in the past. From my mohawk to my dreads I could see where I would have looked guilty. Now, if I am stopped the officer usually knows who I am and has a question for me unrelated to traffic violations.
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lfergie812
April 24, 2008, 9:53 p.m.I have never been asked to get out of the vehicle either. In fact once I was going to get out of the vehicle and was told to stay in the vehicle. I guess it would depend on what state you're in and their procedure.
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Grrr
April 24, 2008, 1:27 p.m.Bravo is right.
The real question for the state was whether there was probable cause for the arrest and search. I'm willing to agree that there probably was, as officers have huge leeway here, but I find none mentioned in the story, and the state didn't seem to think so! It's not like there was a warrant for his arrest, he was merely cited to appear for a document violation which by itself does not constitute probable cause for search and seizure in most states. His personal manner or actions may have been enough, of course. Sounds to me like the Supreme Court just made Terry Stops constitutional, which previously THEY WERE NOT. Unless the arresting officer had some reason to believe he was up to something, the arrest was plainly not kosher according to the state, and the frisk should have fallen with that under constitutional protections regarding the freedom from unreasonable search.
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libsRfunny
April 24, 2008, 4:13 p.m."The question is, did they have reasonable cause to conduct the search."
The moron was being arrested for a misdemeanor. Of course they had reasonable cause to search him. Hell, I've been searched when arrested for failing to pay a civil infraction - and I didn't even have a suspended license.
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nostalgia
April 24, 2008, 9:05 a.m.Looks like the right & left on the court agreed on this one
"Scalia said that when officers have probable cause to believe a person has committed a crime in their presence, the Fourth Amendment permits them to make an arrest and to search the suspect in order to safeguard evidence and ensure their own safety."
"Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said she finds more support for Moore's position in previous court cases than the rest of the court does. But she said she agrees that the arrest and search of Moore was constitutional, even though it violated Virginia law."
Those 2 justices are usually polar opposites.
In fact according to another report:
"The U.S. Supreme Court Wednesday broadly and unanimously reinforced police search power, brushing aside a state court and a state law."
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/04/2...
How often do we see unanimous decisions from the court?
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Grrr
April 24, 2008, 1:44 p.m.Of course they agreed. Otherwise they would have opened the door to about a bazillion retrials over questions of reasonable suspicion.
This was a decision dictated by it's effects on previous sentences, not it's current constitutionality.
The boner is that it redefines the constitutional effects on future cases, and hands local law enforcement Gestapo-like powers OVER AND ABOVE THEIR STATE CONSTITUTIONS the likes of which were previously held only by federal officers. When you really think about it, THIS IS A HUGE REDEFINITION.
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nostalgia
April 24, 2008, 8:33 p.m."Of course they agreed. Otherwise they would have opened the door to about a bazillion retrials over questions of reasonable suspicion."
If you seriously believe either Ginsberg or Stevens would care about that, you apparently don't follow the Court very closely
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protoham
April 24, 2008, 3:16 p.m.Just because it is unanimous does not make it right. It may have been argued poorly.
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lfergie812
April 24, 2008, 10:38 p.m.I think that slowly but surely our constitutional rights are being stripped one by one. At one time the police weren't allowed to search your vehicle without probable cause and a search warrant had to stipulate what they were searching for. The Supreme Court years ago ruled that they had the right to search your car because it didn't fall under the same law as your home.
Then the war against drugs act passed some years back so they started searching for drugs but some states took it a step farther and searched peoples cars for excess money and took it. You see, under existing laws and recent legal decisions, "possession of a large sum of money" by a motorist "is `strong evidence' of a connection to drug activity." The burden of proof is on the defendant to prove the money legal and not on the state to prove it illegal as it should be. Which I might add is contrary to what the framers of our constitution said about a person being innocent until proven guilty.
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memestryker
April 25, 2008, 12:57 a.m.From what I've read, all seizures use guilty until proven innocent these days, and an increasing number of old and disabled people lose their cars and homes because a caregiver broke the law.
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nostalgia
April 25, 2008, 5:41 a.m.Do you have any references on that?
I haven't read anything
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memestryker
May 1, 2008, 4:34 a.m.A news magazine--maybe 60 Minutes?--did an expose about elderly and disabled people losing their homes because of caregivers growing pot or making meth the owner wasn't aware of.
My elderly disabled mother's car was seized when a caregiver was driving it on a suspended license. Fortunately, she'd been in the car with the caregiver at a police checkpoint about a month earlier, and I got a copy of the record that showed a valid driver's license at the checkpoint, hired an expensive attorney, and went to court and argued myself that she couldn't have known the license was suspended because of the stop a month before.
The judge was hateful and nasty to her, and it took me 3-plus months of fighting and cost me, but I got her car back. If the caregiver hadn't been pulled over earlier,
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