Do No Evil – The Supreme Court affirmed Wednesday that police have the power to conduct searches and seize evidence, even when done during an arrest that turns out to have violated state law.
I don't like it. The police broke the law when they effected an illegal arrest. The Virginia Supreme Court agreed that the officers were law breakers when they illegally seized, handcuffed and basically kidnapped Mr. Moore.
This allows the police to pull anyone over on any pretext whatsoever, illegally seize you, prevent you from going about your business and search you. If they find something all the better because it can be used against you.
So much for listening to the state.
This Supreme Court has never missed the opportunity to sanctify a trampling of our rights or to enable of big business.
(a) Because the founding era's statutes and common law do not support Moore's view that the Fourth Amendment was intended to incorporate statutes, this is "not a case in which the claimant can point to a 'clear answer [that] existed in 1791 and has been generally adhered to by the traditions of our society ever since,' " Atwater v.
Lago Vista, 532 U. S. 318, 345. Pp. 3â;;5.
(b) Where history provides no conclusive answer, this Court has analyzed a search or seizure in light of traditional reasonableness standards "by assessing, on the one hand, the degree to which it intrudes upon an individual's privacy and, on the other, the degree to which it is needed for the promotion of legitimate governmental interests."
On February 20, 2003, two City of Portsmouth police
officers stopped a car driven by David Lee Moore. They
had heard over the police radio that a person known as
"Chubs" was driving with a suspended license, and one of
the officers knew Moore by that nickname. The officers
determined that Moore's license was in fact suspended,
and arrested him for the misdemeanor of driving on a
suspended license, which is punishable under Virginia law
by a year in jail and a $2,500 fine, Va. Code Ann. §§18.2â;;
11, 18.2â;;272, 46.2â;;301(C) (Lexis 2005). The officers subsequently
searched Moore and found that he was carrying
16 grams of crack cocaine and $516 in cash.1 See 272 Va.
The question is, did they have reasonable cause to conduct the search.
"The question is, did they have reasonable cause to conduct the search."
Of course they did, they were arresting the guy, they HAVE to search him for their and his own protection.
how many times have you been searched during a traffic stop...
The "buzz" word is arrested not just cited.
when a police officer issues you a ticket.. he has arrested you.. if you don't sign the ticket stating you will appear.. you will go to jail..
again how many times have you been searched during a routine traffic stop for a misdemeanor.. i've never been asked to step out of the car.. and i was stopped and found to have an expired license.. and the cop let me drive away...
I've never been placed under arrest for a citation. If they can't search him/her they could bring drugs, weapons or anything into jail with them.
the search has to be relevant to the probable cause. thus, if you were going to be hauled to jail, your person could be searched because it is relevant to safety in the jail. However, he could not go search your home or your place of work looking for evidence that you were a criminal of the state in some undefined way. What you see this administration and Court putting into place are the pieces required for a police state. Look at the list: provisions for martial law in violation of the Constitution that have been quietly repealed recently, suspension of habeus corpus, etc. This isn't about you fellas stupid drivers licenses. It's about creating a fascist state bit by bit.
The fact that they can seize property and buy or sell it for income for the police and discounts for individual officers breeds corruption--and hurts the elderly and disabled, who depend on caregivers and don't always have control of their own property as a result. I was floored when that got the SCOTUS nod.
BravoSierra, you are right on target--this is happening irrespective of political party. They also listen to the U.N., which is just a bunch of thugs from police states, and also the International Association of Chiefs of Police (whose symposiums are funded by our own Joyce Foundation). Rich bullies like Michael Bloomberg, George Soros, and others all are pushing for a police state in the U.S., and using their own money to make it happen. No joke.
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So it seems that the case involved was one where police arrested a man for driving with a suspended license. They article said that the law requires that the police just give him a citation and let him go. I have a problem with that. I have never heard of police allowing someone without a license to drive away. If that is the case then the bigger problem here is that law and the fact that it needs to be changed immediatly.
'let him go' does not necessarily mean let him drive away. I had an acquaintance call me to pick him up after he was given a ticket for driving on an expired license. He was let go but not to drive away. The officer told him to park his car and get a cab or have someone pick him up.
WOW! Here we go! I knew this was coming, what does the common man have left to protect him? These guys keep eroding the laws of the land what will we be when they are done? I was already afraid of the courts in regards to the presidential elections now this. Do we have any rights left as citizens?
"...what does the common man have left to protect him?"
I don't know what screwed up part of the country you come from, but where I come from, the "common man" doesn't drive on a suspended license and possess crack cocaine.
Huh. And here all along I'd thought you lived in the US.
Because in the US, EVERYBODY is guilty of SOMETHING.
So driving without a license and possession of crack are the same thing a speeding? Or parking in a red zone?
Is that what you are saying?
"Because in the US, EVERYBODY is guilty of SOMETHING."
Very true, Grrrr. Why, you yourself are guilty of dropping out of school, becoming a fat, useless turd of a person, sucking up our tax dollars by living on the government dole, then having the audacity to come onto a website and blog as if you actually have something relevant and intelligent to say.
Fortunately for you, the U.S. doesn't prosecute and incarcerate people for being do-nothing, welfare-collecting morons.
Yet.
NUMPYU : careful, they might come for you as you fit that description to a t a capital T..ROTFLMAO
Ohh NUMPTY you must keep Wendy's in stitches with your attempts at reason..carry on ohhh dense one LMAO
Missed by a mile.
And you assume that I am from such a place why? It's obvious you haven't been black while driving in America so I understand your ignorance. As for where I live it's called Westchester NY kook it up. I don't expect you to understand the ramifications of what just happen because well you live where you live, but I tend to think about others that are less fortunate than I am. Even with the previous law in place they were way too many violations of people rights imagine how it will be now! Last year alone we released almost 300 innocent people from prisons, the worse being a man that sat there for 25 years because of attorney client privileges. The true murderer told his lawyers that an innocent man is taking the fall but his lawyers couldn't do or say anything until he died in prison for committing other murders. The lawyers said over the years they try to give hints and were shocked at the callas nature of those who could do something.
"It's obvious you haven't been black while driving in America so I understand your ignorance."
Oh yes, the poor victim mentality. How do you know I'm not black? You never heard of white people being pulled over for driving in known drug neighborhoods?
Obama has an empty pew in his church for you! LOL
You are either uninformed or callous.
BOTH...
"You are either uninformed or callous."
Neither. Just stating facts.
But, I see the prejudiced libs are out in force. LOL
You apparently never lived in an urban area.
poor victim...ok whatever that's the truth if it's too much for you too bad. Jackass, blacks get pulled over while not driving in known drug neighborhood, in your instant there is a valid reason, in mine there were none other than I drive a BMW! As I said I live in Westchester they are no known drug dens there! Why do I even get into it with you LibsR you are a known idiot, it's not like you will ever become enlighten or learn anything new you are too busy looking for a reason to flap your gums!
"Jackass, blacks get pulled over while not driving in known drug neighborhood..."
Well, jackass, whites get pulled over, too. So do HIspanics and Asians. But, go ahead and pretend to be a helpless victim. To be called a "known idiot" by a moron like you is a high compliment LOL
From CON shill to mindless bigot in about 2 posts. Nice, libs. I'll never feel bad again about hoping you have to spend the rest of your life in prison getting gang raped.
Spike Lee said it bet when he said "Slavery ended 137 years ago. Move the F on! Stop blaming the white man for your shortcomings."
I really doubt you have ever been stopped just for being black. Maybe if you are over 60 years old then Ok. Perhaps when you first started driving that happened, but not now.
You sound like one of those guys who says that black officers are not black, but blue.
I can tell by your comments that you either don't have any black friends or if you do you don't talk to them.
Which is it tanglang?
I remember the shock on my white cow workers faces when I told them a cops stop me and pat me down outside the building we all worked in, their first question was, what did you do. I was in a pinstripe navy blue suit, he told me that they had been a rash of crimes in the neighborhood and they are just being cautious. I had to take her down to the front desk so the guard can confirm what he saw, before she believe me.
So maybe Lib and tang has a point, how can you even begin to imagine this happing if it has never happen to you or anyone you know!
White "cow" workers? Oh, now I see the problem. And you call me an "idiot. LOL"
You are an idiot if you can't recognize that I double tap the (w) but if you think this stops you from being a known idiot it doesn't. If your reaction to what is obviously a simple mistake note only are you a known idiot but a myopic and petty idiot also!
Unless you're a dairy farmer I don't like the "white cow" thing.
I'm white, but just to really think and absorb the fact that "separate but equal" was the law of the land during many black folks lives is mind boggling to me. Black folks get a raw deal from the American criminal justice system. 1/3 in jail or court. Mandatory sentencing, crack sentencing, the death penalty and my favorite plea bargains. So many people plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit that something needs to be done.
None of us is color blind though.
Waldem, Your comment was absolutely rediculous. What about my comment tells you that I don't know any black folks? For that matter, how many white dudes that don't know any black people can quote Spike Lee flicks? Has it ever occured to you that not all black folks think that they are oppressed by racist cops? That believe that in 2008 America everybody truly gets a fair chance? Perhaps you are associating with the wrong kind of people?
Oh and Walden, mandatory sentencing affects whites too. So does the death penalty.
Do you agree with the rest of the sentiments in "Ode to New York" from "The 25th Hour?"
AIR, I knew I you were good for something. While I do not agree with all of what he said, I found some of his points to be very well put. Also, that movie is on my top 25 list of best movies of all time.
(I really am thrilled that you knew what I was talking about.)
i'm WHITE.. i get stopped on a regular basis when driving with my Puerto Rican friends, an thats in S Florida..
it was a real hoot flying with one of them right after thanksgiving of last year....
course i'll admit it didn't help matters that he had his MC "club" colors on ....
Question is, were you and your Puerto Rican friend breaking the law at the time you were stopped? Please don't get me wrong here, I am not in any way implying that only blacks get stop by the cops, if you think that I am, I may have given you too much credit. I took it for granted that since I am black, you would know that I can only speak to my experience not others.
no we were not breaking the law....
here in CT, dwb is an infraction that is frequently enforced -- primarily on those minorities that have the audacity to drive decent, late-model cars that are not the bottom of the line.
Tang - Walk a mile in my shoes first then speak. Until then you are Hush! At 19 my entire soccer team were lined up against a wall while walking back to our bus after playing in an all white neighborhood I am 31, that not that long ago. I have been pulled over about 10 times in my adult life not for speeding 3 of those times i wasn't given a ticket the other 7 were thrown out by the Judge because the officer never showed.
I missed a full 7 days of running my company because they don't hold court on weekends. I am not asking anyone to feel sorry for me I am making them aware of what just happen! But your eternal sunshine will come to an end soon! I hope it never happens to you and you have to watch your child cry in fear for her dad.
Oh hush up and stop it! And screw your shoes, mine are just fine. At 16 I was stopped, cuffed and taken to the station for walking to school. I apparently fit the description of someone who had robbed a house near by. I was finally allowed to go to school after they caught the guy breaking into another house. Did I cry about it? Do I claim that I am being held down because of my race? No! I man up and live my life. I have been pulled over roughly 25 times and have gotten about 15 tickets. Each for speeding. The other ten times I was "Being suspicious". You know a few of those cops are friends of mine now? Not a bad group of guys.
One of them happens to be an officer who shot and killed a childhood friend of mine about 7 years ago.
"It's obvious you haven't been black while driving in America so I understand your ignorance."
And it's obvious YOU haven't been a police officer in America, who risk their lives daily in a jungle of armed criminals and illegal drug users. They're all too aware of the staggering statistics detailing crime - and race. They know who is committing the crimes. They know damn well who to look for.
profiling is ILLEGAL...
So if you are a young black man driving a nice car with shiny wheels....LOOK OUT!
And who are they? If we speak of hard numbers they are more whites in Prisons than blacks, that debunks your argument. Whenever you see this symbol % after a number it's most often used to perpetrate a lie.
If blacks make up 12% of the nation any number of blacks in Prison over using % will make it seem like a large number than it really is.
You have 300 million people in this country 45 million are blacks and let's say for the hell of it 200 million are whites, and say 30% of blacks commit crimes and 15% of whites do the same Let's see how the hard number plays out, 30% of 45 million =13.5 million 15% of 200 million =30 million now if i say 30% of this does that and only 15% of that does this see how easily misleading it is!
An expired license is very different from a suspended one. A suspended one suggests a fairly serious violation, while an expired one is more likely just an oversight.