Do No Evil – In today 's LA Times, Rep. Jane Harman sheds light on the staggering number of sexual assaults within the military, stating, "Women serving in the U.S. military are more likely to be raped by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire in Iraq."
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dissent
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This is a shame!
That it is, and it really makes ya wonder just who the enemy is for Women in the military, the enemy? or their fellow soldiers?
The idea that it's more likely being attacked and raped by fellow soldiers in your own or other units than being attacked, raped, or killed by Iraqis is just amazing to me.
As a male, I am ashamed of my brothers overseas who have committed these crimes. I would strongly urge these women to pursue charges against these cowards, to the fullest extent of the law!
Did we send men of honor or uncontrolable animals over seas? What a disgrace.
I think that military discipline standards have suffered during recent years, according to what my friends in the military have told me. Could you imagine someone like R. Lee Ermey putting up with that kind of indiscipline when he was a Marine Corps drill instructor during the Vietnam War?
>>I think that military discipline standards have suffered during recent years
Actually, it's not so recent. There are support groups for women who have been raped dating back to, IIRC, either WW-II or the Korean War.
Also, I had a close friend when I was in college almost 25 years ago. She had entered the military just after she turned 18. I got a call from her late one night telling me that 3 or 4 guys in her unit followed her into the bathroom & raped her. That's one of the most helpless feelings I've ever had.
So, no, it's not relatively recent.
You're right PW. This has been one of the military's "dirty little secrets" for years. During the time I served 30 years ago there were far fewer women and rape by fellow soldiers was almost a routine and seldom investigated thoroughly. Add 5-6 times more women in the services and a combat environment where discipline becomes secondary to mission and survival and it's going to get nasty in a hurry.
Yes, that seems to be the problem; rape is not relativly as important as survival. And the opportunity for that kind of behavior is increasing with the increasing use of females in a combat zone. It is unfortunate yet inevitable that a military exercise less moral restraints and inexcusable that our military is slow to support the welfare of it's members and the civilians for whom they are fighting.
Other true stories
Woman living in the USA are more likely to be raped by fellow Male US citizens than killed in gangland crossfire.
FTA
"These are true stories, and, sadly, not isolated incidents.
Women serving in the U.S. military are more likely to be raped by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire in Iraq."
Over the top statement.
There have been 1,400,000 military personnel that have served in Iraq, 03/03/20 to 08/03/31. 4012 deaths to date. Of that 95 have been female, of that 59 Female soldiers (all branches) Killed by Hostile fire, 36 by Non-Hostile.
http://icasualties.org/oif/Female.aspx
"Woman living in the USA are more likely to be raped by fellow Male US citizens than killed in gangland crossfire."
Wow...If things are as bad here as you indicate it sounds like we should be using those trillions of dollars we're spending in Iraq to civilize our own citizens first.
You know your story reminds me of an incident from the late 1980s involving the sister of an old college girlfriend of mine. Her sister enlisted in the Navy and the recruiter was promising women better military assignments if they had sex with him. I don't know how many women fell for this line but apparently a number, including my girlfriend's sister. He was eventually caught and disciplined. I think that her sister didn't enter the Navy as a result of this situation. It's been 20 years and the story slipped my mind until just now.
These are all horrific. We may not agree on politics, but this is something we can all agree on. And having 4 sisters & a daughter, this is kind of worries me, too. As someone else posted in here, these are the same people who will be discharged into our general population.
Fortunately, I have a boy so I'm more likely to be receiving rather than making complaints regarding his behavior.
I have 2 boys, so I'm right there with you. Seems like I'm going to be getting it from both ends. Lucky me.
Truth is the military action is the reflection of our leaders. Everyone is taking what they want with no recourse for their actions. Why not our solders...They should read the art of war!
They are going to suffer with the types of people they've started letting into the military in the last few years. I remember stories a couple years ago about gang graffiti showing up in Iraq
I hate to shock you bruhaha, white men are raping too!
I didn't mean to imply that they weren't. I just happened to pick up on that story particularly because it is "more relevant" to where I live. The gang graffiti was "Chi-town". I live and work around Chicago. Not to mention, that it's not just blacks and other minorities in the gangs.
On top of the gangs, the military now allows white supremacists into the ranks. Add to the plain criminal element that have been let in and you've got one hell of a mix. Giving our white supremacists combat training that can be used for the "race wars" or whatever.....doesn't seem too smart.
And if they're raping fellow soldiers this frequently, think of what the citizens have to suffer? These are people that absolutely have no defense, physically or legally, from degenerate soldiers.
..."Did we send men of honor or uncontrolable animals over seas? What a disgrace"
Most of the soldiers sent to Iraq are, indeed, men of honor. A few, like the moron president who sent them over there based on lies and greed, are worse than uncontrolable animals. They are simple war criminals and should be prosecuted as such.
Is it honorable not to rat out fellow soldiers that you know were involved in a gang rape?
"Did we send men of honor or uncontrolable animals over seas? What a disgrace."
Two things: First, it's entirely possible women are assaulting women as well. Second, maybe there was a good reason for segregating women and men as was done in the past.
I seriously doubt the rape is as rampant as some would have others believe. The doctor's claim of 41 percent were among those who came to the hospital, not of all women in the military. That is called a "skewed sample," making generalizations impossible.
That said, anyone who assaults a fellow soldier in any manner should be dealt with harshly, and the military is making efforts to do so. Operation Tailhook and similar events are aspersions upon the military. Clearly, they still need to clean house. Perhaps when the good ole boys are retired, there will be even greater progress. In the meantime, SEGREGATE soldiers based on sex.
hilarious,
How about attending to ones duty without resorting to violating someone's rights?
If segregating the sexes is such a great idea for the armed forces in order to avoid sexual misconduct, then it should hold true for all facets of our society.
If you can't follow orders or control your urges, you shouldn't be defending our country.
Loverman
When your right your right
hilarious,
"How about attending to ones duty without resorting to violating someone's rights?
If segregating the sexes is such a great idea for the armed forces in order to avoid sexual misconduct, then it should hold true for all facets of our society.
If you can't follow orders or control your urges, you shouldn't be defending our country."
If the CO calls one of their subordinates into the office drops trow and asks for a BJ that guy shouldn't be in charge of anything.
Even if their name is Bill Clinton.
loverman: "If segregating the sexes is such a great idea for the armed forces in order to avoid sexual misconduct, then it should hold true for all facets of our society.
If you can't follow orders or control your urges, you shouldn't be defending our country."
since when is rape an uncontrolled sexual urge? whatever happened to seduction? whatever happened to the simple respect for another human being? whatever happened to personal dignity?
rape is much more about the callous, brutal and violent use of power than it is about sex. i wouldn't want my kids growing up and thinking that rape is just a sexual urge gone out of control
dissent,
All too true, but the urge to seduce or copulate will lead to the object of that urge to say no. Then it become rape when that negative response is ignored and one proceeds to satisfy that urge. N'cest pas?
injest -
What an obnoxious, inappropriate, sleazy comment. Just when there is something postive we can all discuss and unite in - the protection of our female soldiers - you have to throw in partisan politics and take a jab at Bill Clinton. His sin was infidelity. We are talking about rape.
The ultimate rapists are Bush and Cheney. This is laid bare by Cheney's comment "SO??!!" Rape, after all is a violent imposition of power and will over a victim. Cheney clearly shows he and Bush are violently imposing their power over the entire nation, the 4000 dead soldiers, and the estimated 600,000 dead Iraqis; and he doesn't give a damn who knows it.
Much as Cheney's comment reveals his megalomaniac personality, so too does your comment reveal the sleaziness of your personality and the squalid state of your mind.
'Wipes are still abusing themselves over Bill Clinton and yet they shriek in horror if anyone tries to criticize our current President. Amazing.
injest,
Your point is correct but your analogy isn't. Monica wasn't raped or even molested, all according to her own testimony and the person who outed her. Monica did that all on her own with all the fervor of a woman in love.
Now, I understand that Republicans have all been too well united against Bill Clinton, before and after Monicagate, so you will pardon my deepest sigh at your attempt to re-spin history ad-nauseum; it's been used too often to make any difference or sense.
How that deals with my point to Mr.Hilarious post may be interpreted, but not in the manner which you have posted. Perhaps you may need to rephrase your point a bit more clearly.
libs - I am not sure why you are going to so much trouble to try to deflect guilt away from the male soldiers who committed rape. In all the reports that have have come out over the years about the state of women in the military, I do not recall reading a single case of a female raping another female. I can see 2 women disagreeing and fighting, but never rape.
Secondly, 41% of anything is a huge problem. If a hospital reports that 41% of infections coming in are due to AIDS, that community is having huge outbreak of AIDS, no matter what population segment you were treating.
If 41% of killings investigated by police were done by teens, that city has a huge teen gang problem, even if all the deaths were all also teens.
You really do not know how many rapes in the military were NOT reported due to fear of reprisal or how many victims were raped at gunpoint; so they showed no physical bruises and did not bother going to the doctor.
So the problem could be worse than we know
>>I would strongly urge these women to pursue charges against these cowards, to the fullest extent of the law!
Listening to interviews w/female soldiers who were victims of rape, many did try. Either they were told to shut up, brought up on charges, or put back into their old units under the command of the very soldiers that raped them in the 1st place.
It's horrific.
"The idea that it's more likely being attacked and raped by fellow soldiers in your own or other units than being attacked, raped, or killed by Iraqis is just amazing to me."
--You're not the only one who is amazed. Imagine what the rest of the world thinks of us when people read such stories. This is one of countless reasons America shouldn't be in the business of "civilizing" other nations (and it's also why we shouldn't simply give firearms to anyone who can find his way to a gun shop).
We still treat women as less than, we'd rather spend money on weapons than children's healthcare, we're some of the most violent people on the planet and we believe that might makes right. What the hell kinda warped, Twilight Zone inspired version of a moral high ground is that supposed to be?
according to the constitution the govt isn't to spend money on health care.that is the responsibility of the individual.
"according to the constitution the govt isn't to spend money on health care.that is the responsibility of the individual."
--I see...So then I take it you've contacted President Bush and told him you think we should strip him, Laura, Barney and the twins of their "un-Constitutional" health insurance (among many other benefits they receive) paid for with your tax dollars, correct ?
There is seemingly no end to the mess that this war has created! Why is it that we are now hearing about this horrid behavior? Once again the left wing media has sought to protect the right of this country by keeping this under raps! Now one have to wonder is all the other things we hear about our solders are true! I am not Against our solders I think they are remarkable under the conditions they are put in but this just cant happen, it's another black eye to our nation as a world leader. They should weed out these criminals and string them up by the NUTS TILL DEAD! These ladies have more to worry about than weather or not our own solders are going to rape them.
Actually, I have been seeing these stories for years. Perhaps you are not looking in the right places....
I do see this as wrong, just do not agree with your 'media sweeping it under the rug' thoughts.
You were doing good until you mentioned "left wing media" ???? The "left-wing" has been against the war from the start, and I don't think the media is very left-wing to begin with. Not even sure what relevancy that has to the whole topic.
Set and Aji - I was playing on words. "The left wing media has sought to protect the right of this country by keeping this under raps" I was being ironic well attempting to be! And while the underground media has been reporting this, the main stream media hasn't!
Yes, but the soldiers aren't the ones signing up convicted felons (because no one else thinks our military is worth joining anymore) and looking the other way or passing the buck when our enlisted people engage in criminal behavior.
Women should be told the statistics of being raped in the military before they decide to join.
They should be informed yes, and also what means they can take if it happens, but seriously, I don't think recruiters would ever tell women the stats, or give anyone else any negative stats. #1 reason I didn't join the army like I wanted to, was because the recruiter that came to my house told me several bald face lies, trying to convince me to sign up.
Yeah, I don't believe for one minute they would ever tell a potential recruit the truth.
kludlow,
You're totally wrong, idiotic, moronic, and beyond the pale.
Someone ought to do to you what has happened to these women. Preferably by those same misogynistic bastards whose mothers wouldn't recognize if they stood there holding their tiny penises in tweezers baying, "Look mommy, look! I got one just like yours!"
Loverman
"You're totally wrong, idiotic, moronic, and beyond the pale."
Loverman, how come I can't find this article on Jane Harman's web site?
You know the one s that polls put all their hot gas on?
Try it, look for Jane Harman April fools day article!
injest,
Beats my pair.
Could it be that the story is entirely true?
loverman lmao!
Although I disagree with the statement (Unlike these honorable patriots they would like to be protrayed as, most of the military is small town morons, the lowest no skilled idiots, without the abilty or maturity to get into college) to have the number of recruits needed to man this illegal war the standards have been lowered. There are people (certainly NOT the majority) who ARE currently serving who would NOT have been permitted entry into the military a few years ago.
Although these numbers are staggering and shameful, I wonder if more isn't done to these criminal for the same reason that some of these people are in the military in the first place....'we need the live bodies'. Perhaps they aren't prosecuting these men because they need them to fight just like they need the people they are recruiting.
Also, contrary to what midleft said about "small town morons" I believe a large amount of the army used to be part of gangs and thus a large amount of that still are. Its not because they come from small towns its due to the fact that the standards have been lowered to such a degree, as you said.
Sorry midair...accidental neg...meant for midleft!
Hah, not a problem!