Conscientious Objectors »
Posted By Spadecaller 8 months, 2 weeks ago in News"No, you cannot have my body to fight your war...do what you will with me!" The indomitable force born from one courageous act is more powerful than a thousand screaming voices. The conscientious objector must make some hard choices.
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Comments So Far: 183
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injest8 months, 2 weeks ago
"Conscientious objectors who find peace and strength within to overcome the exploiters of war, are a testament to the best in us"
Not really, that's a little too self-serving.
Also consider that the US military is 100% volunteers
Just like the US Peace Corps. If you really believe that being a Conscientious objectors is the best one can be then join the US Peace Corps or your countries equivalent and Prove it .
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triizine8 months, 2 weeks ago
The American military is 100% volunteer, for now. However, requiring young men to register with Selective Service, following their eighteenth birthday, doesn't mean it will stay that way. Selective Service registration is not voluntary. My son turned 18 last year.
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Spadecaller8 months, 2 weeks ago
Conscientious objectors who find peace and strength within to overcome the exploiters of war, are a testament to the best in us. They also deserve our support. When a person refuses to take part in an illegal war, that person should not be comdemned or labeled a coward.
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Dionys8 months, 2 weeks ago
When a person refuses to take part in *any* war because they object to the murder of other human beings, they should not be condemned or labeled a coward.
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tanglang8 months, 2 weeks ago
Yes they should. Anyone who objected to WWII because they objected to the murder of other human beings was a freaking coward. Why? Because it was cowards like them who allowed Hitler to rise to power in the first place. Brave men gave their lives to stop a madman from killing innocent Jews. Cowards did not.
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JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.1 Reply
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walden38 months, 2 weeks ago
If someone claims to be a CO don't they have to demonstrate some deep, longstanding belief?
Aren't COs also sent to war zones, but don't carry weapons?
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Spadecaller8 months, 2 weeks ago
walden:
Each country varies. To some degree or another, most countries reject CO requests. Many COs are imprisoned. Some are sent to war zones, but don't carry weapons. If their philophical position may likely influence other soldiers, they are often panalized and imprisoned.
IMprisonment in the U.S. is more punitive than most other countries. Israel is often one month in prison and then they must be re-evaluated, where as in the U.S. 1-2 year sentences are executed without further review.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mk-pX4LIyU
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JackofallChems8 months, 2 weeks ago
The punishment for refusing to fight a war in defense of one's country should, by rights, be severe. In the USA, there's every legal and practical opportunity to sway the majority, and consequently the government, toward sensible policies and easily-justified wars. The US is a 'one man, one voice' society, and there's simply no excuse to elevate one's personal moral convictions over that of the citizenry as a whole. If you don't like it, and you can't handle the demands of being a citizen when it's far too late to second-guess the big decisions (like war), then leave and don't let the door hit you on the way out. There's plenty of other places to live outside of the US that are either the pacifist cesspools of self-indulgence that can't defend themselves, or they're run by the tyrants or barbarians that are worth fighting a war to destroy. Either way, there's a place for fools that can't accept rule by the people when the people disagee - and early death, too.
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BravoSierra8 months, 2 weeks ago
additionally, in the US we reject the notion of the "conditional concientious objector". We only recognize the category of "unconditional concientious objector". The Vatican considers this an immoral position. they would cite a case such as Germany in WWII as an example of when a person should be able to stand up and say his nation is fighting an illegal war and therefore he objects to service. The Iraq War would be such a case. The war is immoral according to international legal principles and historical ethical criteria for a "just war". In such a case the ethical position is that one must not follow an illegal order and thus one can conditionally object. Nations naturally don't allow this. Thus, if you are going to be a CO you have to answer a string of questions in the proper manner. The logic of the legal interrogation is laid out in a simple series of questions.
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flyonthewallzz8 months, 2 weeks ago
Walden3:
For once this is a discussion I know a little bit about.
The test to prove CO status is rigorous.
You basically have to prove that you are incapable of killing another person for whatever reason. And that you have held these beliefs for a period of time.
I have grappled with these thoughts and created scenarios in my head that bring me up short of being a true pacifist (I see this as a personal weakness).
I do know some folks that are not as weak as me.
There are some CO's that will not fall in line with the chain of command and refuse to wear a uniform. I know of none that would not be happy to perform an alternative service.
I believe the bill was called the S-1 that reinstated the selective service under President Jimmy Carter. And although we do not have a Draft now it is no longer possible to register as a conscientious Objector. If the draft where to be reinstated a CO would have only 10 days to attempt to prove their position.
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BravoSierra8 months, 2 weeks ago
You are incorrect. The military allows a classification of discharge that is based upon the individual in the service showing themselves to be a CO. The legal principle is that a contract is not valid if the individual could not reasonably have comprehended the decision to join the service that they were making. Thus, someone who goes in thinking they will get trained to be a computer geek and be stationed in Hawaii can experience a moral crisis when they realize the business is about real shooting wars and killing. Fewer than 1 in 7 soldiers is a combatant or enlists with the expectation of ever being a combatant. The military shrink would attest to the genuineness of the moral crisis and then the person who runs the test for CO that flyonthewalzz referred to above would come in and ask the questions.
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Dicax_Maximus8 months, 2 weeks ago
And we call ourselves civilised.....
If it wasn't so pathetically sad, it'd be funny....
War - Not all are unjust. Not all are unethical. Not all are preventable. Not all are fought (when they should be).
The rest ? Those would be the one's that I agree with the CO's on....
Good article SC !!!
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Rinty8 months, 2 weeks ago
That young Israeli woman has the qualities and guts that I admire. She must of known she would be under incredible ridicule, let alone jail for her actions... Thanks SC
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Spadecaller8 months, 2 weeks ago
(rinty) Two short bios on young Israeli COs:
http://www.afsc.org/israel-palestine/Michal-Sto...
http://www.afsc.org/israel-palestine/Rotem-Mor.htm
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Rinty8 months, 2 weeks ago
This generation of Israelis and Palestinians will be the one to take giant strides towards peace.
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Candida8 months, 2 weeks ago
Thank you, Spadecaller. I've been very pessimistic about the Israeli-Palestinian situation, but it seems there is at least a glimmer of hope that peace can be achieved one day.
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rdy2rck8 months, 2 weeks ago
I respect any REAL COs who stay in there country and fight for what they believe in.I always wondered those who went to Canada during Vietnam were COs or not. I guess only the individual and their conscious knows.
But I think we must also define what an "illegal" or "immoral" war is.Unless under direct attack are any wars legal or moral?
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cowboygrandpa8 months, 2 weeks ago
Spadecaller:
I would say all wars have an immoral agressor. The defenders are not always immoral. This world wouldn't exist as it does, if there were not those ready to step in and defend the innocent from the corrupt invaders.
I hate all war, yet know some must be fought. That said the current war was all to avoidable. Bush lied and is lying still. Innocents died and are dying still.
Conscientious objectors I have known are seriously peaceful and do not resort to violence. There are very few of them.
They will struggle to save another with little thought of their own safety at times.
I have also met some cowards who want their freedom as long as others do the fighting and dying for it.
Bush, Cheney, Limbaugh, ...
Good story.
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canadianrancher578 months, 2 weeks ago
My only real experiance with COs came when I was in high school , we had a young couple come to our community and taught in the school, He taught science and his wife was the librarian. This man chose not to fight and left his country, home, and family, he was welcomed in our community as a person and not as a draft dogger, most of us respected his choice and to my suprise even many of the vets from WWII. I think that the thing that bothered most of us was the sacrifice this young couple made, most of the
