Propeller's Incorrigibles »
Posted by: Spadecaller 9 months, 2 weeks ago960 Comments Report this Story
When exchanging ideas in Propeller's vast cyberspace, members often encounter malevolent verbal assaults that one would find in a sleazy barroom hall at the town's edge. Have you had enough? What happens when Propeller's terms of use are ignored? What are your experiences?
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Spadecaller9 months, 2 weeks ago
The level of debate at Propeller matters to many of us. I'm sick of personally abusive commentary that targets member's race, age, sex, nationality, ethnic background, or disability. What about you?
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JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.61 Replies
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Spadecaller9 months, 2 weeks ago
JohnQ:
Thank you for sharing your opinion, though I respectfully disagree.
Dismissing this subject because you think it is rare does not match my experience.
I have received numerous messages from members who tell me they have had enough and will be or have left the site because of this issue. Some PM me just to vent their frustration with the barrage of insults they encounter. Some of us do not have the thick skin that you may have.
The frequency of offenders I believe is higher than you acknowlege. I can show you a dozen threads like these:
http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2007/11/25/...
http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2007/11/25/...
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JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.37 Replies
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Candida9 months, 2 weeks ago
I tend to agree. It's worth developing a thick skin, because they soon learn that they can't hurt you. If you watch the threads, you'll notice that some people practically never get insulted. They tend to be the ones who ignore insults.
If someone is abusive to me, I stop responding to that person in any way. I don't even give negative votes; they just cease to exist for me. It seems to work, and if everybody did the same, I would be willing to put money on it that it would work. Abusive people want attention; if they are starved of that, they'll leave.
It's unrealistic to expect the anchors to monitor all the threads all the time. I think it's up to the members to report really outrageous comments. When that happens, the anchors do take action. So far, only two people tried to attack me personally. In one case, somebody else reported it and the comment disappeared before I could respond to it.
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TemplarScribe9 months, 2 weeks ago
For the sake of education, lemme demonstrate how easy it is to break Propeller's rules:
"...(D)egrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of religion, gender ... or disability." So by calling Neocons "blind" to herr Bush's faults, am I "degrading" them b/c of their collective disability? (:^D)
Sure, we've all faced opposition here, some more than others. But IMHO, these boards are the equivalent of the Medieval lists, the place where we charge at each other, hoping to break a spear across another's shield -- at least, that's how the Political forums appear to me.
Certainly, there should be Mods here to rein in those whose abuse of the term "free speech" includes swearing, personal attacks and so on. But I disagree with herr Bush when he famously claimed, "There should be limits to freedom."
By definition, freedom is unfettered, as much as humanly possible.
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Silverghost9 months, 2 weeks ago
I agree wholeheartedly with Spadecaller, Candida. I have a fairly thick skin, yet in debate or discussion, there is no cause for name calling. It is non-productive, detracting from the issue at hand & will undoubtedly not get a decent response, possibly none. Therefore, if the violations continue, the purpose of the site is short-circuited. -Rev. S
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Obaku9 months, 2 weeks ago
Oh, I disagree. Just as in real life, there are PLENTY of causes for "name calling". And just as in real life, the truth is an absolute defense.
If you tell a lie, I will call you a liar, just as I would do to your face.
If you support the destruction, or damage, to the Constitution, I will call you a traitor, here, in the newspapers, and from the rooftops.
If you demand that others defend your person, your property, or your rights, and yet will do nothing to defend them yourself, I will call you a coward. Because those are the actions of a coward.
And so on.
Note: Silverghost, I do not mean the word 'you' here in the personal sense, but in the third person indefinite, i.e. 'one'.
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Spadecaller9 months, 1 week ago
Those who lack the ability to communicate often resort to namecalling. (cowards, traitors, etc.) And, those who do not have a defensible position often do the same. For them, it's easier to call someone a coward or a traitor than to respectfully disagree and show just cause.
The other reason some people prefer namecalling is they primarily like to inflict hurt on others.
In your case, I think you know how to communicate respectfully, and that you are not that concerned about explaining your views.
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Obaku9 months, 1 week ago
Gee, and all this time, I thought those words existed because they were descriptive of specific states and actions!
'Name calling' is pejorative, with the usual epithets, which of course I can not list for you here.
Just for an example, if someone comes from Poland, and I call them Polish, that is descriptive. If I call them 'polack', that is name calling.
So enlighten me. If someone is commiting treason, what shall I call them that won't offend your sensitivities, Miss?
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Candida9 months, 1 week ago
I can see your point, and calling someone who lies a liar is not what I call name-calling. Calling someone an idiot because he/she disagrees with you is name-calling in my book.
However, even in the cases you mention, where I would not object to the descriptive label, what does the label accomplish? If you call someone a liar without demonstrating that he has actually lied, you are name-calling. If you call himher a liar after demonstrating that he had lied, what does the label add to your statement?
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whitinnggComment removed: User banned.
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Silverghost9 months, 1 week ago
The problem, Obaku, is that even labeling a person as a "liar," "Traitor," or "coward," etc., it is subjective most of the time to a viewpoint, not an indictable offense. So, what does it accomplish in a debated issue? It closes down honest discussion & creates a war scene.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath, but grevious words stir up anger." Proverbs 15:1. -Rev. S
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JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.4 Replies
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JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.
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JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.
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Silverghost9 months, 1 week ago
Obaku: Most who would like to indict, do not have the evidence to proceed. -Rev. S
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Spadecaller9 months, 1 week ago
Some people rather cut up the truth to make it fit their agendas.
"I prefer to call you a pig because, in fact, you are dirty and do not care about bathing." Instead of suggesting that "I think you need to clean yourself up."
The presumption of innocense before proven guilt is an outdated concept for them.
Intelligent people know why they choose the former.
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Indochine549 months, 1 week ago
What has truth got to do with anything now?
we have, as a majority, become so brainwashed by tightly controlled media and an education system, corrupting our children, that truth can no longer be spoken without attacks from braindead goyim who somehow think that they are so enlightened and will defend the garbage they have been fed with outrage and then congratulate themselves on how fantastic they are.
truth: we can see on NS that the gay fraternity attack the christians mercilessly, always championing evolution.
Well they never mention that the law of evoultion would state that homosexuals will never reproduce, therefore are obviously defects which should be disgarded. They never mention that the law of evolution states that a man inserting his penis into another mans rectum aint ever gonna produce offspring. Lesbians shoving things made of rubber up another lesbians reproductive system aint ever gonna produce a child.
Yet on these subjects, we get banned.
NS= No Speech
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uncl569 months, 1 week ago
Obaku,when one has no legitimate comeback in a honest debate,they always resort with a name,and it is very common here.I don't comment often anymore because I am a conservative republican,or as Liberal Democrats on here like to say"Neocon Repugnant".I don't degrade their beliefs,don't degrade mine.I know some funky names for Democrats,but choose to be bigger than that.A liar is a liar,a coward a coward,a thief is a thief.So why not call a "Republican" a "Republican".What is so hard about that.And though many don't agree with him,his name is still President George W.Bush!!Not herr Bush or any of the other names that are allowed on here,against T.O.S.policies.Fair is fair.
I agree with "spadecaller".
at 400,000 members,how many are truly still here and active.Probably 1/10th if that.So they have nothing to brag about,and how many are the same people with different ID's??
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Searchbeam9 months, 1 week ago
Uncl56,
I will say here emphatically that I know quite a few Conservative Republicans and I have nothing but respect and high regards for them, simply because they do not use their political leanings or their Conservative philosophy to denigrate, insult or marginalize other viewpoints.
There is a new twist in politics, and it has become increasingly virulent over the past 7 years. That is the group of NeoConservatives who have hijacked the Republican and Conservative parties and are using their names and ideology to twist it to their own nefarious purposes. This group operating under the umbrella of groups like New American Century, have used the resources of this country in terms of money, military might and moral authority to get us engaged in an illegal, immoral and unconstitutional war, just to push their dirty agenda of world dominance.
More..
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Searchbeam9 months, 1 week ago
Contd..
None of these cowards had the nuts and guts to wear the Uniform, but they gladly sacrificed the lives of our brave soldiers at the altar of their Nazi-type ideology!
These vultures have done their dirty deeds by lying, cheating and deceiving about WMDs and sacrificed the stability of our economic system by putting us in hock by more than A TRILLION dollars! They have blown away the Conservative dictum of living within our means and using money in a responsible manner. They have ruined the reputation of the Republican party by bringing in spurious ideologies of religion into politics and destroyed the Republican principles of responsibility, enterprise and ethics.
For such a travesty, I do use some rather explicitly descriptive terms such as RepCon (an abbreviation of the term Republican-Conservative) only to describe these hijackers and their dirty tricks.
More..
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Searchbeam9 months, 1 week ago
Contd..
I, for one, do not believe in insulting my fellow commenters and propellers, although at times I have used terse words.
Peace and Blessings!
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jordan119 months, 1 week ago
I too have received a few (what would be termed abusive PM's). But I take care of them the same as I do on threads. I laugh, because they're quite funny. I also thank them for reminding me I'm on the right track. If people like that agreed with me, THEN I'd worry. I've never had one of them try a second time with PM. Why bother, if they're not going to 'upset' me?
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JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.
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baddad59Comment removed: User banned.21 Replies
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin9 months, 2 weeks ago
I've seen everyone one here that posts regularly insult someone. Spade is no different, nor am I.
Its how you do it.
and 'saving' someone's insult for further use is like saving the blue dress, kinda morbid
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aceofspades19 months, 2 weeks ago
In a former life I have been abnnes because of Spadecaller - not by any neocon who I've often been somewhat offensive to , but rather for questioning Spadecallers true dedication to the ideals of liberalism. Sort of a pervervse joke upon me.
I believe that anything said in public should be acceptable - there is enough of a divervse community here to handle anyones' remarks. It is when it comes to PMs that strict adherence to the Terms should be kept.
It is one thing to wave a banner in a crowd , quite another to punch the speaker in the nose
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Searchbeam9 months, 1 week ago
I think lml is trying to change the subject and bring some controversy into the thread here!
After all, Hillary is the lightening rod, isn't she?
LOL!
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Silverghost9 months, 2 weeks ago
As he contends: "...i believe in UNCENSORED free speech," Baddad confuses free speech with anarchy. The rules are stated, violations can result in justifiable censure = removal from the privilege of membership.
If a person cannot make a point without demeaning a person with an opposing view, he lacks the skills to intelligently & successfully debate an issue with any conclusiveness. -Rev. S
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ConquerorWyrm9 months, 2 weeks ago
What's wrong with anarchy?
As for views and those opposed to them, well Rev., you and I have a bit of an intimate history with that as well. In the end, I think it turned out pretty well. In fact, at the end of that little PM discussion I'm recalling, I learned a bit about you and thus developed a respect for you. Problem was our points of reference. Being that there was a subject (or any subject) with controversy, someone will be offended. Both of us were offended (in the PM discussion I'm recalling) at times and both of us were guilty of offending. Oh, I'm not attempting to criticize, just stating a truth. One NEVER knows what is going to offer offense to another nor can one prepare against it outside of realizing that taking offense is the offended's responsibility, not the offenders fault.
As for name calling & such, have you ever considered how vicious a term like 'secular humanist' can be when spoken to demonize? I would prefer an insult direct to that.
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ConquerorWyrm9 months, 2 weeks ago
Oh, no problem...and none ever taken. I mean, I'm the ConquerorWyrm & you can not offend me unless I allow it...which I don't so no problem.
I just saw your neg & was curious wherein I had erred insofar as your opinions went being the nature of both your article, this thread & my comment & what they are. I was just curious why my rather neutral statements in a discussion with another (whom I do did mention I respected) would cause you to give a neg, which, in the terms of discussion further on this thread seems to imply, well, a negative opinion...and being that a thrust of this discussion deals with the parsing of opinions & the effect which negative ones have for some people, why a neg would have appeared.
Truthfully though, you only amused me, not offended me. I'll give you two more trys at that though if you want. I mean, I hate to see people disappointed...
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ConquerorWyrm9 months, 2 weeks ago
yeah, my belly, sadly, is one of my weakest spots...I'm so darn ticklish that my 3 year old whups me in tickle fights...
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Silverghost9 months, 1 week ago
Wyrm, How ya doin?
My comment to Baddad's contention is that he thinks saying whatever's on your mind as being free speech. It sometimes degenerates to slander, which used to be indictable.
If I remember correctly, it was not that I called you some degenerating name, but attempted to bring you to task about the reasoning used. I may have been caustic in that, but as you know, we apologized to each other, then we got on to some good discussion.
In that heat of an impassioned defense or presentation, some misplaced emotions can generate words that are ill-chosen. Yet a gentleman or lady will admit a mistaken effort. -Rev. S
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Searchbeam9 months, 1 week ago
Natureboy,
That is really interesting, because, it must have been a "girl" that carried him to term and gave him the gift of life!
I am sorry, but any time someone tries to sling mud at a person of another sex or of another persuasion, I just feel a flicker of anger for such miscreant, but that gradually gives way to the fact that in this world, there are a lot of ungrateful and misguided people who have their value systems invaded by the virus of hatred!
They either live in abject misery of intolerance, or become Idi Amins of this world!
Peace and Blessings!
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Endoscopy9 months, 2 weeks ago
One of the major problems that start this is the abusive political ranting. It starts out bashing the opposition and descends into doing the same to posters on the opposite side. If the first could be toned down then the second would probably follow.
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not2needy9 months, 2 weeks ago
That said!
We can't MAKE anyone see things our way in regards to politics and religion. What we have to do is learn to respect everyone's opinions.
I am a Christian Liberal, and get tired of being told that Liberals are atheists, but i am constantly being bombarded with that comment from the right.
I don't approve of abortion, but am TOLD by the right that because i am a liberal i support abortion.
Then there are the Conservatives who claim to be GOOD Christians yet promote hatred, have abortions, multiple marriages, gay relationships and have affairs on their spouses, all the while saying i asked for forgiveness!! Does God only listen to and answer the prayers of the Republicans? Why is there no forgiveness for Liberals?
It's this hypocracy that causes the deterioriation of discourse on Propeller.
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Spadecaller9 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks EE:
There's no shame in being the target of a scurrilous bigot. The pity is that those who hate miss out on the best life can offer and they burden the rest of us with their need to find targets for their abuse.
When they are called on it, they blame their actions on others or minimixe it significance. In essence, it's sociopathic behavior; thought and conduct that shows no regard for the rights of others.
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cowboygrandpa9 months, 2 weeks ago
n2n: Hit that target dead on. But I can't throw stones. I to have been guilty as I'm on my second marriage. First wife cheated on me with her drug dealers. After giving her a chance to clean up her act she wouldn't. Took my daughters and stayed single for 14 years. I have also been guilty of a few other things, ha ha ha. Still I am a moderate who does not appreciate being told how liberal I am. I hold some liberal views as well as moderate and conservative views. Hate the hypocrasy as well. The drug dealer who was selling to my ex. A Republican who claimed he was only supplying a need. His were met in prison I guess. So no I can say God definitely listens to the prayers of all.
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libsRfunny9 months, 2 weeks ago
" I am a Christian Liberal, and get tired of being told that Liberals are atheists, but i am constantly being bombarded with that comment from the right."
I am a conservative atheist sick of liberals always calling me bible-thumper...
"I don't approve of abortion, but am TOLD by the right that because i am a liberal i support abortion."
I am pro-choice yet always am referred to as a bible-thumper by intolerant liberals.
"Then there are the Conservatives who claim to be GOOD Christians yet promote hatred, have abortions, multiple marriages, gay relationships and have affairs on their spouses, all the while saying i asked for forgiveness!!"
Then there are the liberals who claim to have GOOD INTENTIONS but promote hatred, racism, banning gay marriage while pretending to promote it (yes, you read it here first), class warfare, corrupt democrats like the Clintons and want to let terrorist organizations like Al-Qaeda have free reign in the Middle East.
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ConquerorWyrm9 months, 2 weeks ago
Ah, you & N2N...peas in a pod & proof that all peas in a pod are not identical...infinate variety!
But libsRfunny, I know what you're talking about and fully agree with it (except that little mis-charactorization at the end...exactly the type of stereo-typing under discussion).
It ain't that warm when you run against the wind, is it. Trust me, I know. You yourself have mischaractorized me (by refering to me as all those 'liberal' traits which you despise) as I have (I confess) refered to you in the ways which you decry.
Who is right?
I'd suggest neither & both.
Thing is, there is that bit about infinate variety. No two of us are alike in more than the most general ways. Herein comes what some like to call the Golden Rule (what I call the Universal Moral Maxim). Problem with that though is were everyone to couch their words as inoffensively as possible, how could anything ever here be discussed.
Personally, I like being called names, but only if they're creative
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MacR9 months, 2 weeks ago
Ok CW, that has to be one of the best posts I have seen in a long time. Wish I could vote for it more.
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ConquerorWyrm9 months, 2 weeks ago
I've been reading Heinlein again...please don't try to find out what quotes I've butchered, bowlderized & stolen...it would be embarrassing...
}:)
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Bacalao9 months, 2 weeks ago
I keep hearing people referring to R.A.H., I guess that I will have to finally unpack my library and start reading them all over again.
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Shadowolf9 months, 1 week ago
James,
WAY back in High School, I carried paperbacks everywhere...one of my classes was called 'Constitution and Government'. (nee 'Civics')My teacher kept coming up with these totally off the wall examples of different governments that sounded familiar..
I kept answering his questions...then I had to make a pit stop; unbeknownst to me the teacher looked into my (open) bookbag...back in class another question was posed, then the teacher pointed at me and intoned "Everyone BUT you...I know you already know the answer!!!He also said I had to come in after school!!!
What the HELL???
After school, I discovered that what HE had in mind was... books!!!He noticed that I had a copy of "Starship Troopers",
which he was desperately seeking...(I had 3 copies of all of 'Admiral Bobs' books!!!)I swapped the 'S.T.' for Alan Dean Fosters 'Spellsinger'.(Now another fave I recommend!!!)
Books Rule!!!
(The book swap went on the school books as a 'Student conference'!!!)
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JamesMarcus9 months, 1 week ago
As a teenager I probably read "Starship Troopers" a half-dozen times. Recently I tried to pass the torch on to the next generation (i.e., my 14-year-old son) by giving him a copy of "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress." Since it came from a square adult (i.e., me), he declined to read it. So I reread it myself. Fun! It would make a great film, too.
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Shadowolf9 months, 1 week ago
Agreed...as long as the twit who made a mess of "Starship Troopers" stays out of it!!!
May I suggest an anonymous bookbag???
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ConquerorWyrm9 months, 1 week ago
Just finished that one which is why I'm reading "Cat" right now...forgot what happened to Mycroft/Adam Selene...
My eldest is 18. When she was 3 I began reading to her nightly, starting with Carroll & Milne, Barrie & Kipling. By age 5, we had done Tolkien. At age 9, I read her "The Door Into Summer" & then several of his shorts. Last things I read to her was the summer before she entered high school...Iliad & Oddessy. In 5th grade, she had comprehension skills of a college student.
You might want to start with some of his juveniles. "The Rolling Stones", "The Star Beast" & "Have Spacesuit..."
Also, tell him some scandalous lie about RAH, you know, the type that raises interest...
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ConquerorWyrm9 months, 1 week ago
Oddly, that might be one of the very, very few I haven't read, "Red Planet" that is...
But if you really want to tear up, read "The Man Who Travelled in Elephants", a short story that used to be packaged in with "The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag".
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