UN: Tasers A Form Of Torture »
Posted by: TimALoftis 9 months, 2 weeks ago149 Comments Report this Story
TASER electronic stun guns are a form of torture that can kill, a UN committee has declared after several recent deaths in North America. (via raw story)
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MacR9 months, 2 weeks ago
I know Spaz, what are we thinking?
Night sticks and handguns are much better. Forget that taser, it leaves 99.999% alive. I bet they are going to be more alive if we just shoot them or use night sticks again.
/sarcasm off
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
So why do we see these thugs hanging around the donut shop with their thumbs in their belt,chest all puffed out,trying to give the impression that they're a tough guy,but when it comes to subdueing a teenage girl all of a sudden they're not so tough and have to rely on a taser?
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tanglang9 months, 2 weeks ago
Because of trial lawyers cops are scared to physically take people down. They use their tazers instead of their hands to avoid lawsuits. You do have a good point though. We need to have the officers backs and stop the lawyers from filing frivilous lawsuits. I agree that they should not have tased a six year old though.
(Sorry, I have many family members and friends that are in law enforcement. The donut shop comments tend to offend me.)
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Bacalao9 months, 2 weeks ago
I too have family in law enforcement. I still can't stand the ones that refuse to do their jobs or worse do their jobs wrong. The black and blue wall of silence must fall. Our police should never allow pigs into their service.
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
As much as I dislike lawyers,defense lawyers are an important part of the system.Here is something from todays news about the type of people who are trusted with these weapons.The outrage will be about a slick lawyer and an activist judge,not the fact that the cop was bad.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/...
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OncejesterwasI9 months, 2 weeks ago
I think it would be next to impossible to get all of the bad cops out, but, we can't sue over EVERY BLASTED LITTLE THING that our police have to do to aprehend a suspect. We can not expect our police to be able to aprehend every single perp' without a scratch. We must give our cops the right to use reasonal amounts of force against those resisting arrest without fear of being sued!
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
If it's just "a few bad apples" then why aren't "all" the good cops doing their job and arresting them?
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
Because who gets to decide who the "bad" ones are?
I'm not about to call a cop "bad" just because he gave an extra lump or two to a piece of street trash.
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
Giving "an extra lump or two" is not the cops job,he is breaking the law the same as if someone gave you the same without legal authorization.And if the extra lumps are given after the person is in handcuffs (typical)why should anyone respect that officer as being couragious enough to protect anyone.If you have to tie sombody up before you beat them ,you're just a plain coward.
And keep in mind that the "street trash" is just as innocent as you until he is proven guilty,why does an innocent person deserve "extra lumps"?
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
The person is not so innocent if he or she is confronting police. If you notice in a court of law- nobody is EVER found innocent. They are found either guilty or not guilty-- NOT innocent. There's a difference.
A cop is a human being as well. There is much adrenaline in any confrontation. It's very hard to just pocket it and stop it on a dime!
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
Oh,I thought it was "innocent" until proven guilty,not "not guilty until proven guilty"...is there a difference?Since when is turning your back "confronting"?
Pro football players are pumped up on adreneline all the time and determined to catch their adversary but seem able to control that emotion in the time it takes to blow a whistle.
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
You are VERY good at arm-chair quarterbacking I see. Read carefully here. Football is a game. A sport. Something done for fun and for money.
A confrontation in the street is life or death. When a police officer pulls somebody over, that cop is in charge of the situation. When a person disregards a lawful order from the officer, that person is subject to restraint. Period. End of Story!
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
In that video,the man is no danger and he certainly doesn't appear to be "street trash".And I have much experience in working under threat and pressure,I just got paid less for doing more.
And if turning your back is "confronting",then I guess the "cut and run" democrats are really "attacking" Iraq?
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
I don't care how many Toys R Us Security Guards you trained. When a cop is by himself on a carstop, it can get ugly in a hurry if the cop loses control of the situation-- that is where cops die. If a cop gives you a lawful order and you disobey-- even by walking away when the cop tells you to stop, you are forcing the cop to bring the situation back under control-- especially when that cop is by himself and his backup could be upwards of 20 minutes away!
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Bacalao9 months, 2 weeks ago
Locky, have you ever stared down the barrel of a gun, I have. Have you ever single-handedly controlled a bar fight, I have. Have you ever had a hit put out on you, I have. And believe it or not but I have dealt with these with a minimum of violence. I have learned how to talk people out of their violent acts. Maybe these officers that rely on their tazers first should learn this trick. I believe they are suppose to teach this at police academies.
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
You work at a bar. You probably have an impressive stature and that can intimidate somebody into compliance by itself. But for the rest of us who are not 6'5, the taser is a VERY effective tool to take down a non-compliant individual without injury to the cop and least amount of injury to the perpetrator.
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tanglang9 months, 2 weeks ago
Cops are trained to not use physical violence. Although they often have to. Cops are not afforded the time to talk someone down when a situation escalates. There was a recent case here in Fulton co. Ga. where a male and a female officer broke up a bar fight. All parties shook hands and the cops went to leave. Before they could the fight broke out again. The two men responsible for starting the fight were taken outside. Outside, a crowd gathered around the cops screaming "don't let them arrest you", and "kill those pigs". Then the two men attacked the officers. After being pepper sprayed, the female officer was on the ground being beaten by one of the guys. While the other perp who had one hand in cuffs was using the other cuff as a knife and trying to cut the male cop. The male cop drew his weapon and killed the man. The female then shot the other perp.
This was justified and necessary.
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Bacalao9 months, 2 weeks ago
Hold on a second Locky, I work in a bar. With drunks, Adult drunks, Big (sometimes angry) adults. When I have to confront them I don't have a gun, billy club or even a tazer (all of those are illegal in a bar (even for an off duty cop). When I have to stop them from fighting, yes I could " throw in an extra few lumps, I don't! It would be wrong, immoral and most of all illegal. my job is to subdue NOT to harm.
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tkyrchncs9 months, 2 weeks ago
tanglang: My local radio station had a hysterical morning game call-in called "Cop In Or Cop Out" where the caller said either "cop in" or "cop out". Then they called a random donut shop and asked them if there was a law officer there. The correct answer was most often "out" but not by as big a margin as you might think, and the waitresses who answered were often really funny. One said "Caint magin how you missed em Hon. Call me back in ten or so. What's a matta, caint get through at thu station?"
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tkyrchncs9 months, 2 weeks ago
Love em. But they are a serious indulgence for me now as I need to watch both fat and sugar. Can't blame the boys in blue for this one though, as most of the local shops give 'em one or two a day for free, and all of them give free coffee. The station is out of Roanoke, VA, and they no longer do this, but my cousin in Phoenix told me his favorite morning station there did it too.
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
The six-year old lived and that's the whole point. They didn't shoot her!
It's "unfortunate" that the old lady in the wheelchair died, but who's to say that she wouldn't have died from any other form of restraint?
You have me confused with yourself. It's YOU that work in a fantasy, controlled environment. It's the cop that doesn't have the luxury of knowing how a certain incident will play out and if he will go home to his family safely at the end of his shift.
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Georgia509 months, 2 weeks ago
What? The UN has no comment on its refugee camps? No comment on its own Undersecretary who served as the architect of Rwanda?
Mass murdering torture mongers ought not be our first resort when seeking perspective on weapons of torture.
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afoaf9 months, 2 weeks ago
why even bother posting if all you're going to do is make attacks on the UN.
do you want to argue the justification of tasing an elderly woman in a wheelchair?
http://www.news4jax.com/news/14144292/detail.html
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
She was armed with two knives and a hammer.
Fine, Afoaf. You should have been at the scene to take away her knives and hammer without restraining her since you sound adept at that sort of thing.
I'm just glad the cops went home okay at the end of their shift.
If it wasn't such an emergency, the family wouldn't have called 911 in the first place, now would they?
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
Hmmm...more than one big strong officer couldn't subdue a mentally ill granny in a wheelchair.Maybe they should have given her a flat tire.
BTW-the woman did not go home okay,she died,another "non-lethal" death.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/8980210/detail.html
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
Maybe one big strong officer could have taken a knife to the gut. Why should he have exposed himself to such clear and present danger to himself?
I don't care if the old lady died. She was a piece of garbage that her family wanted dead anyway. They're only faking love for her because it may end up as a big pay day for them.
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
Would you love your grandmother as much after she came after you with two knives and a hammer, wheelchair or no wheelchair? Now her family stands to make millions of her death. After the cameras were shut off when they told their story how outraged they are at the police, they probably had a tap-dancing session in the street!
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
If you weren't there, you don't know what happened. The news just wants you to tune in and buy the paper.
Like I said. If only somebody like you was on the scene, that maybe knew exactly how to disarm her without losing a finger or an artery.
I know "wheelchair" sounds damning. But she could have had somebody cornered. She could have been lunging wildly. If they had to taser her 10 times, that tells me she was seriously wound up and ready to inflict harm on anybody who came near her! The cops tasered her. It was the most humane thing they knew how to do to stop her.
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
Well,I wasn't there but maybe she was a gold medal winner in the Special Olympics and had superhuman strength and a V-8 under the hood of her wheelchair.Those poor cops were lucky to get out alive!
Just off the top of my inexperienced head...how about throw a cup of soapy water in her face while the other cops grabbed her from behind.
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
Okay! You run inside the house, find the dish washing liquid, pour some in a pot, fill it up with water, run back outside, hopefully one of your fellow officers or family members didn't get stabbed yet and get in front of the grandmother and pour it in her face!
Is that what you train recruits to do? Is that the standard of training that you would expect a jury to hold those cops to?
How pathetic is that!
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
Okay, I'll leave you alone to go back to your nice, warm, cushy university job.
Keep reading the paper and wring your hands every time you think a cop acted with excessive force when he only had seconds to act but you can read the whole story and prepare an entire lesson on how much better a job you would have done!
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
Maybe, just maybe, the grandmother wasn't responding to any talk and that's why 911 was called in the first place.
Maybe, just maybe, the grandmother took things too far before any specialized team could arrive that could properly subdue her by talking to her as expertly as you could have.
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tanglang9 months, 2 weeks ago
I'd have pulled my Glock and kindly asked her twice to drop the weapon. If she did not, I would have shot her. This whole taser mess is nonsense. In 05 the naacp and the sclc protested Dekalb County Georgia for using tasers after 3 people (two of which were on meth the third had a heart condition) died from being tased. The following year Dekalb Police shot and killed 13 people. Inluding as her family put it "a harmless woman". Yes, a woman who had taken a knife to her husband, fled from police into someone elses house, and put two pre teen boys at risk while she lunged at the officer with a knife. Three times he said drop it. He even grabbed a chair and threw it at her. When she came at him a fourth time he shot her. Justifiably.
Dekalb now has their tasers back.
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cushi9 months, 2 weeks ago
I have no problem with stun guns being used in the case of an imminent threat to life and limb, but as with guns and nightsticks, they are often employed when unnecessary. Given the potential lethal result, I do not believe they should be the first line of defense. People have been killed who were not quilty of any offense meriting use of the weapon. The physical condition of the victim is not known to the law enforcement officer, and therefore it is NOT true across the board that stun guns are safe for use against the general populace. AND, when it is used excessively (not an infrequent occurrence), is DOES rise to the level of torture. If you don't believe, try it and see how you like it.
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
Handcuffed woman tased multiple times.
Bad boys...yeah,right!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMpEr-MOSyk
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tanglang9 months, 2 weeks ago
A local radio talk show host gets tased to show that they don't kill.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-493974...
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tanglang9 months, 2 weeks ago
All three of these people were resisting arrest and deserved to be tased. There are certain things you cannot do when being arrested or even pulled over for speeding. If you don't sign the ticket you will go to jail. And you never, ever, ever walk away from a police officer who is giving you orders. All three of these folks should have gone to jail, but in my opinion should have been taken down by hand. Unfortunately cops can't do that anymore.
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
tang
You know very well that if a person is within range of the officer touching them they can easily be subdued by other means.Most people have no idea of the silly things called resisting arrest such as simply talking to the officer before they are even told they are under arrest.
Sorry,but I have seen too much excessive force firsthand to trust these guys with these toys,I think the regulations should be changed to limit the use unless an officers physical safety is in imminent danger.
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ONEMEMPHISDUDE9 months, 2 weeks ago
.."Sorry,but I have seen too much excessive force firsthand to trust these guys with these toys,I think the regulations should be changed to limit the use unless an officers physical safety is in imminent danger."
The limitations you request are already in place for those tools that are classified as "deadly force." Tasers are NOT DEADLY force in most instances. Also..you mention that..>>>"if a person is within range of the officer touching them they can easily be subdued by other means." You obviously have never been an officer.
It all seems so easy. Just like what you would have done in Peyton Mannings place on the football field on game day. Oh? You never played the game?
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tanglang9 months, 2 weeks ago
I just think that if the officers life is in imminent danger, he/she should just use their glock and end the threat. Tasers should be used for arresting people who are resisting. In place of the officer having to fight with them. My sister has been on desk duty while recovering from several fights. (she does not have a taser.) Once, she was backing up another officer who had pulled a car over for speeding. In the car were three adults, 2m 1f, and a pit. The perps were screaming that they were pulled over because they were black and when backup (my sis) arrived they became violent. She was fighting a man and the woman, while her partner was fighting the other man and the pit. She broke her ankle and lost a tooth. He had several bites to his leg and a fractured jaw. In my opinion they should have shot and killed all four of them. In another incident she ran down a man on pcp. She fought him for almost 10 mins until backup arrived. Again, she should have used her gun.
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
It's called an ODA and I would put their professionalism up against any donut patrol anytime.
And again I see a troop hating neocon questioning vets service because I don't fall into the thinking that you think I should have,
Bottom line...any cop who can't subdue a 6 year old girl does not deserve to call himself a protector.
Come on down to toys r us sometime and I'll give you the a$$hole discount.
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
Is this what you call "professionalism" in Tennessee??
"Tennessee Narc of the Year Indicted on Drug Charges"
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2007/nov/10/narcot...
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
Two dozen crooked Memphis cops indicted since '04...that's more than a "few" bad apples...that's a bushel!
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afoaf9 months, 2 weeks ago
I agree with you, mostly...but watch the first video:
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/trooper-tasers-all...
the driver asks to see the sign, he asked him out of the car as if complying with the request....at no time did he say he was under arrest or that NOT signing the ticket would imply arrest.
then the officer wheels around on him and points a taser at his face...the guy was just shocked like 'wtf'...that first link is a perfect example of why these things are dangerous...it was completely unnecessary and ridiculous.
the second link, the lady was given ample opportunity and clear instructions...she got what she had coming to her.
generally though, I think these things are being used incorrectly most of the time...handcuffed and tased? enfeebled in a wheelchair and tased?!
it's crazy.
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Locky129 months, 2 weeks ago
The trooper was by himself. Too many times a trooper lost control of the situation and ended up dead. It's way too volatile a situation. It was very dumb for that man to turn his back on the trooper with a taser pointed at him.
He wasn't hurt. He just did a rattlesnake dance for a few seconds. He probably learned right then and there to listen carefully when a cop pulls you over.
Remember: It's not a right, it's a privilege to operate a motor vehicle in any state.
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
After you've been through robin sage and s.e.r.e.,toys r us is easy.
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tanglang9 months, 2 weeks ago
Afoaf, While I have always thought it was common knowledge that not signing a ticket means jail, he should have told the guy he was under arrest. However, he was still justified for using force when the guy refused to follow orders and walked away. It is common knowledge that you never walk away from a cop who is not through with you.
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ONEMEMPHISDUDE9 months, 2 weeks ago
Tased for not hanging up cell phone...
http://www.ifilm.com/video/2868740
...I saw this. As a former Police Officer, let me explain this to you. This "lady" was given a lawful order by a police officer. The "lady" declined the officers order, not once, but several times.
This appeared to be a blatant attempt by the "lady" to force a confrontation. Obvious motive: Jackpot from The City Coffers.
An officer must, for his safety, and for the safety of the public, be prepared to control a situation. Once a lawful order has been given, you are obliged, by law, to submit to the officers demand. I have no problem with this.
...To paraphrase...Let me "TASE him BRO!!!!"
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mntnman4449 months, 2 weeks ago
If 2 officers can't pull a small woman out who only has one free hand then please don't try to impress me with your macho at the 7-11.I think it's as simple as tightening the regulations and then let the officer try to justify in court that the 6 year old girl or the 82 year old lady was a threat to their life.
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OncejesterwasI9 months, 2 weeks ago
There are good cops and bad cops, goog lawyers and judges as well as bad. A good cop physicly restraining a law breaker all too often becomes the "bad guy" in a messed up courtroom. Some times a taser becomes the most "legally accepted" method of restraint available to the officer. (Short of standing there helpless as the perp gives the finger and walks away.)
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