Diplomatic angst over mandatory postings »
Posted by: postaphis 10 months, 1 week agoSeveral hundred U.S. diplomats vented anger and frustration Wednesday about the State Department's decision to force foreign service officers to take jobs in Iraq, with some likening it to a "potential death sentence."
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wasntme10 months, 1 week ago
I did that a month ago and "you" meant lot of people in the management form top to bottom. :)
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ETproductions10 months, 1 week ago
I can understand the angst of the State Dept. workers, especially as the story of how the Bush Neocons kneecapped Colin Powell when the Iranians reached out to us to discuss a peace deal with no preconditions on the table.
But their position is much better than the soldiers that can't simply say "Screw you; I QUIT!". Once Bush launches his next front in Iran, the soldiers over in Iraq and State Dept. employees alike are going to to start getting cut to shreds. Look for casualties at least tenfold. If the Iran attack brings down Musharraf and Islamic Radicals get their hands on Pakistan's nuclear armed missiles (a very real probable outcome of the new neocon drumbeat for war on Iran) then all bets are off as the the death toll. It could end up in a nuclear confrontation between the US and Russia/China.
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Teagen10 months, 1 week ago
Neocons? Perhaps you should read the fine print when you sign on for government service. You are able to be transferred anywhere and everywhere they see fit. There are members of the FAA, NTSB, and even Ag here in Iraq.
Joe, is correct, if you don't like it, then leave. There are waiting lists to join that branch of the government. Wait a minute, you're in the State Department but you don't want an assignment overseas? That's like being a doctor but you don't like working with sick people.
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Teagen10 months, 1 week ago
ET, what does the State Department do? They represent the President and people of the United States. Your lefty friends have been saying for several years we need to talk to our enemies. That's what the State Dept guys are supposed to do.
On Pakistan, Iran and your other fiction writing class assignments, we're not planning to attack Iran. You would see a huge increase in troop call ups, armor being moved and ordinance being brought into the territory. We're not seeing that at all. We're seeing newer equipment being brought in, but that's simply replacing older equipment.
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NelsonR10 months, 1 week ago
Personally I could give a crap about their feelings. They signed up for all the perks which include excellent retirement, medical, seniority and theft while on the public dole. Now mind you most in the private sector receive squat for benefits. So fed. employees go where they send you and stop whining. Most don't have what you now have. By the Way, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Hannity, Rove, Limbaugh etc. etc. you all should join the poor in a peace march. I know you will not, you pathetic draft dodging hawks.
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cushi10 months, 1 week ago
As much as I sympathize with your sentiments, I really cannot support sending anyone into harm's way in that Hellhole!! I want our soldiers out of there and I certainly don't want anyone else going! Human life is far too valuable a commodity to be wasted because of the stupidity and stubbornness and of a deluded, borderline brain-dead Decider in Chief!
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browntiger10 months, 1 week ago
I agree with you Nelson,
They are massively overpaid with retirement, medical etc benefits.
Are they allowed to use those fancy swimming pool, tennis court, etc? Is there HMO hospital, or are they using free evil socialized health care? Never mind.
Question is, why the hell do we even need US embassy in the first place? What is that that they do????
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Dave5910 months, 1 week ago
Umm I'm thinking they get shot at, maybe. And hide a lot I guess. Not much else it seems so yeah they might just earn a couple of those fancy perks we pay for. Probably not though.
Let them quit if they don't like the duty. That's the my way or the highway way of the Bush Administration.
So says Dick(the Penguin) Cheney
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NelsonR10 months, 1 week ago
Brown - I will tell you this with experience.
R & R from Vietnam to Hong Kong. Typhoon came up, no money left since it was the last day of RR and needed funds to live another couple of days. Went to the Embassy there and explained our dilemma by hoping for a draw to payback. Brushed off while serving our country. I'm sure the ambassador was out partying on funds given to him without any questions asked.
2nd incident, lived in Mexico and was getting screwed by a Mexican and went to the Consulate and their answer was they couldn't help. They said not my country.
So in conclusion I say shut the doors of all embassies and eliminate more fat cat do nothing jobs of government. Like Rice with her perks and fat paycheck, she goes first class around the world and accomplishes nothing, nil, nada and she has the audacity to smile while landing at each vacation spot. Another Bush appointee who could never get a real job in the outside world.
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UrbanLegends10110 months, 1 week ago
The members of the Foreign Service are covered by the State Department's Medical section while overseas, however they are expected to maintain health insurance, and file claims for any medical services performed or recommended by the medical unit. The State medical units do NOT provide any medical coverage for FS employees while the employee or family member is in the US, with the exception of post transfer medical examinations and innoculations required for new posts.
I am thinking if the benefits of being a DOS FS employee are so great, why aren't you taking steps to be an FS employee?
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Grancher10 months, 1 week ago
US embassies represent the Unites States in foreign countries and do a variety of different things. Within the Embassy there are several sections. The most obvious is political section, they are the official link between the US government and the foreign government and all the political stuff goes through them. The Consular section deals with US citizens in the foreign country; tries to keep track of them, help them when they get into trouble, and provide assistance in for things like US taxes and voting. The Consulate also screens foreign nationals for US visa eligibility and things like that. The economic department deals with economic issues between the two countries; they collect data on the local economy, help US businesses in the foreign country and such. There is also Management, Public diplomacy (US PR), and Security. The embassy also houses rep.s from a variety of other federal departments.
You can check out the State Department website for more information.
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UrbanLegends10110 months, 1 week ago
Care to elaborate on the theft issue and why do you think members of the Foreign Service are any less dishonest than employees in the private sector with the same respective levels?
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gamahuche10 months, 1 week ago
I have no idea of what EXACTLY they signed up for, Nelson.
But in my mind all bets are off since the UN bombing.
Even in warfare thaere are exlicit or tacit agreements that diplomatic representatives are untouchable.
When a city/country are in the grip of anarchy the room for diplomacy is limited to say the least and to suggest that a bunch of valiable guys should just go over there to become targets serves nobody's interests and I suspect Is NOT covered by the contract that these public servants sign.
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unorthodoxic10 months, 1 week ago
they take the king's shilling.....so they must do the king's bidding. However, considering that king Bush is a wooden head, they might think about a mass resignation.
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Brimstone3310 months, 1 week ago
This sounds like the most likely reason for the "callup". Funny thing is, the Army already has a force just like this...Civil Affairs. 10,000 reservists who are specialists in various civil functions...like transportation engineers, judges, public health doctors, etc. They are chosen for their civilian skills. Their main job is to take care of the civilian population in wartime! Problem is these folks stopped doing meaningful operations in Iraq years ago because it got too dangerous! I have mixed feelings about the Dip weenies' position. The protest reminds me of a scene from "Apocolypse Now". That film is often on my mind nowadays...Chef almost gets eaten by a tiger and freaks out. "I didn't sign up for this cr*p! GD Army mission! I didn't get out of the f*cking 8th grade for this kind of sh*t!" I mean, don't we usually send rescue missions to get the Mimosa sippin' crowd OUT of embassies when they get attacked? ...GD right...never get out of the boat...
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walden310 months, 1 week ago
good. it's time we send the men behind the curtain out into the field with the flying monkeys. see how fast when the risk gets spread people become risk adverse.
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markoller10 months, 1 week ago
America never should have plunged Iraq into anarchy in the first place. Now we need to create another police state--a better one than Saddam Hussein's. Forget democratic mumbo jumbo. Besides, our own subtly totalitarian nation has no right to force 'democracy' and 'freedom' on the world.
We do not shoot dissenters or send them to concentration camps. Our press censors itself, and truth can always be crushed under the sheer weight of lies. And the Internet is as effective against the press and mass media as a pea shooter is against a tank.
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Charlson10 months, 1 week ago
Ah, but peashooters with the right press can be the start of a movement. And with thousands or millions of peashooters, surely one would be packing a hand held, anti-tank, rocket launcher.
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Teagen10 months, 1 week ago
You know you're so right. Why shouldn't the Iraqis live under an evil dictatorship controlled by armies of secret police. You whine about Abugrab, perhaps you learn it's history before we got there. It had state of the art torture and rape cells used regularly, right before execution. There are mass graves everywhere. We're still finding ammo dumps with all sorts of nasties.
Things are getting better. But when you start at the 10th level of hell, you have a long way to go. The good thing, most of the people want us there and trust us. We don't use IED's targeting women and children. We're the ones building schools, markets, water pumping stations and power generation. Perhaps instead of reading stories created by writers based in the US,you visit your local VA. Listen to the real stories. Better yet volunteer. If not in the military, there are support groups that always could use the help. VA, Red Cross, etc. but again, you're liberal, you'd rather complain than help.
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markoller10 months, 1 week ago
I wrote, "a better one than Saddam Hussein's." The Shah of Iran or Tito would have been a vast improvement. Emperor Franz Josef would have been better still.
Think of the consequences when these rulers lost their grip. Deeply divided nations can only be police states. Bear in mind, that dogmas are always wrong, including democratic ideology. The only reason for making an idea a dogma is to protect it from scrutiny.
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Searchbeam10 months, 1 week ago
I have a thought:
Why not have all those NeoCons, NeoFascists (and NeoNazis in disguise) serve as diplomats in Iraq, If they refuse, the Director General can deputize them and ship them to their baptism by terror, to get a good taste of the war they stared and imposed upon us!
In fact, Wolfowitz and Hadley could be the lead team to get in!
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markoller10 months, 1 week ago
BoBo in Texas,
"The Widening Crusade," by Sydney H. Schanberg, Village Voice, October 15, 2003, quotes Faith of George Bush author, Stephen Mansfield, "in the election year 2000, Bush told Texas preacher James Robinson,'I feel God wants me to do it'." "Mansfield also reports: 'Aides found him face down on the floor in prayer in the Oval Office. It became known that he refused to eat sweets while American troops were in Iraq, a partial fast seldom reported of an American president. And he framed America's challenges in almost biblical language. Saddam Hussein is an evil doer. He has to go'." Is that your idea of intelligence?
Click http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0342,schanberg...
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dwemm10 months, 1 week ago
On an old cartoon show, Superchicken used to quiet the qualms of his sidekick by saying "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred."
Didn't these people take an oath or something?
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wasntme10 months, 1 week ago
When I was a teenager, in my hometown in Iran,one evening the word was out that a terrorist cell including Shah's own rebelious nephew, would arrive in our city any time.They were supposedly coming from a road that lead to white mountains and dissappeared toward Kurdistan.For us kids, it would be an exciting event to watch some shoot out (something we had never seen)so we were lined up on the side walk and staring at the cars coming from white mountain to see which one had the CELL.One of the police officers who was always ready to stop us,kick us in the butt and slap us was there too except he had his gun out and was hiding behind a big tree.He was scared s h i t les s.We decided to payback the respect.We kept taunting him With things like "hey you r supposed to protect us get out of there" ."why r u hiding? are you scared? :)And he only had one thing to say all the times :"Shut up kids , I have a wife and kids I have a family to feed" we had a field day.:)
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Grancher10 months, 1 week ago
Early on the article makes it sound like the problem is that the State Department employees are objecting to being forced to take assignments in Iraq. This is of course a week position for the diplomats as they are all informed well before even taking the first of three tests that must be passed to qualify for the job that they will have to take uncomfortable and potentially dangerous assignments.
But later in the article there is the suggestion that their real objection is that they do not feel that the State Department is supporting them very well. To me this sounds like it is more a case of the heads of the department not supporting the people on the ground, which is something we saw in the Army and National Guard last a year or two ago. This is a far more reasonable position and it has been a common expectation that the Federal government will look after the people it puts in harms way.
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agentX10 months, 1 week ago
Now I'm glad I never took that test.
What's the old saying? Ours is not to question why but to do and die?
Yes, that usually applies to soldiers, but this is a first for me to have diplomats forced to go overseas.
Yes, we should not feel sorry for them because service to the country is what they signed up for.
However, we SHOULD be concerned because
a) they know this war on Iraq is bullcrap. AND they know it's not safe even in the Green Zone. Don't we evacuate embassies when they're under attack?
b) Who will guard the diplomats when they're under assignment? Blackwater is leaving- so that means either US soldiers or other contracting groups? Could we see another Fallujah?
c) More diplomats means more kidnapping targets. More targets means more hostages. We don't need to give Al Qaeda a diplomat and/or a soldier to behead on YouTube!
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AbuAmirah10 months, 1 week ago
These people need to stop bitching and moaning about this. Hell they knew what this administration (regime) was about and they took jobs with it anyway. $hit, how do they think the dudes in the military feel? At least they won't be living in the same conditions with the troops and if they do go out of the green zone they'll be protected up the wazoo. Pack your $hit and get your asses over there NOW!
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nikkibabe10 months, 1 week ago
They should tell "Conartist" Rice: Go and F&^% yourself as I QUIT.
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Charlson10 months, 1 week ago
When Bush has had the cart (war) before the horse (diplomacy) so long that when you finally put the horse in front of the cart you're too far behind to catch up. And sometimes the horse either forgets what to do or just doesn't want pull that cart any longer.
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djn3nunez310 months, 1 week ago
You need better eyesight. Troop level reduction to sustainable levels. Not a withdrawl.
If these diplomats refuse their assignments, unlike the enlisted personel, they are free to quit.
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Charlson10 months, 1 week ago
Well if the government sent the right diplomats maybe a diplomatic solution could be found.
Nah, what am I thinking. Bush and his cronies would muzzle the attempts towards any relevant diplomacy. Bush's diplomatic track record is abysmal.
I'm thinking that we'll really see no diplomatic solution to Iraq until after the election.
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RedstateLib10 months, 1 week ago
Bushes Checklist:
Break the Military, Check
Break FEMA, Check
Break the Treasury, Check Check
Break UDSA, Check
Break CPSC, Check
Break State Dept., Check
Well he has almost accomplished everything he set out to do! See he has been one of the most successful Presidents in history.
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hyperbola10 months, 1 week ago
Let's see. A recent employee of a few months in the State Department tries to force drastic changes.
At the same time: """More than 1,200 of the department's 11,500 Foreign Service officers have served in Iraq since 2003."""
Sounds like all the bush-con neophytes that were hired in Iraq and made enormous messes have given up and gone home.
Meantime the bush-cons needs thousands to run the iraqi government, so they are trying to shanghai the State Dept.
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GengusKahn10 months, 1 week ago
This is interesting.....poor babies! Taxpayers pay your salries and expect performance. Now get your hands dirty and go to work! Maby Blackwater will protect you from the boogeyman. Maby not. That's life.
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Searchbeam10 months, 1 week ago
I would prefer to see the fat behinds of Shotgun Dickie, Hadley, Limpbag, "Brain Odor" Reilly and Wolfie, and all of their cohorts working their routine in Iraq for 6 months or so! If they like it, give them a chance to do it again!
That will give us fresh air and give these popcorn warriors a taste of the dirty war that they started and promoted!
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BravoSierra10 months, 1 week ago
If they had had to serve in a combat zone like the soldiers they were willing to send to war..maybe they would have managed their nation building contracts and done their diplomatic relations on this mess better.
What's the saying, the chicken is invested but the pig is committed...the soldiers are the pigs, the State Department is the chickens.
I loved the quote from one about 'who will raise our children..."? No $H!T stupid! What do you think the soldiers who have been going to war because you screwed up the diplomacy part of this are living with?
Clauzewitz said war is an extention of diplomacy by other means...
What it means is, is that when your diplomats fail to negotiate trade agreements ever
