Do No Evil – In December 2004, the Bush administration appeared to have abandoned its assertion of nearly unlimited presidential authority to order brutal interrogations. In February 2005, the Justice Department issued another opinion in secret, authorizing the harshest interrogation techniques available to the CIA.
From the article:
"A White House spokesman, Tony Fratto, said Wednesday that he would not comment on any legal opinion related to interrogations. Mr. Fratto added, "We have gone to great lengths, including statutory efforts and the recent executive order, to make it clear that the intelligence community and our practices fall within U.S. law" and international agreements."
How does a "recent executive order" legalize these practices that have occurred since 2005? And to which stautory efforts does Fratto refer? More secret ones?
They're not U.S. Citizens and they are suspected of trying to kill us.
A little head-slapping and head dunking never killed anybody. But it may just save a few thousand lives.
You people worry too much.
...and over the wrong stuff.
ROFLMAO yet Im sure slapping people around and dunking them are making us tons of friends in the war against terror. Yeah why I bet if that happened to you you;d be apologizing left and right that you were so sorry you were going about your normal life and that made them suspicious and how sorry you were that you made them slap you around and dunk you, even when you havent done anything.
Guy, they aren't U.S. Citizens and suspected of trying to kill you. Not just rounded up at random! There's a reason for the stop!
If one of them was let go and killed one of your family members you'd be the first to scream and cry, "Why didn't they connect the dots! Why didn't they get him when they had the chance! I'm suing the government to make sure that never happens again!"
Like I said, a little head dunking and head slapping never killed anybody! Where the heck were you when the Muslims were cutting off heads on TELEVISION?
It seems they really aren't trying to become close friends with us in the first place.
So can you tell us how many friends in the War of Errors it HAS won for us? Sees when all you do is go around and making more and more enemies you're creating a self fufilling prophecy.
ROFLMAO, Home Depot is having a duct tape and plastic sheet sale this weekend. Better stock up.
Oh and dont forget to look behind your bushes they could be hiding ebverywhere.
Not that worried.
Not that worried???? After your posts above claim doomsday is right around the corner unless absolutely everyone is incarcerated. ROFLMAO. THe typical Bush fear pusher.
Its ideology! NOT reality, that worries people like Locky.
He is a walking contradiction.
I know enough to know that there is a real threat out there being defeated. I'm not worried about it, I just know about it. The posters on this board on the other hand think we if we all just held hands and sung Kumbaya, it would all go away.
locky, your really singing yourself into a ditch.
noone in this chat here is afraid. i'd venture to say most are outraged or upset or aggravated or annoyed
any one of these yes, but afraid?
you see we understand your point of view, the KGB point of view, but we don't endorse it.
i can see how torture would have a predictable affect on the tortured, and how a person could use this to advantage, but that doesn't justify it.
Imperialists oppress(Bushies)- the oppressed fight back(Terrorist). It's a simple equation really; Imperialists make terrorists - you start a war on an amorphous enemy (anyone that dares question the Empires power) - Label them terrorists and you have War machine that will roll as long as the funds are shoveled in and a built in enemy that will never be vanquished given that the Empires business is to squeeze as much as it can from those it oppresses thus continually creating a endless stream of "terrorist". So if there is a threat it is the fault of those that are supposed to represent us abroad. If we say it is ok for us to use torture to "gain vital intelligence" then we are saying we can use what ever violence we want and that it is justified. While also claiming that those individuals we have labeled terrorists do not have the right to use similar violence to protect what they see as their Interests.Bush is saying, "Do as we say and not as we do"
I'm sorry. A Head Slap IS NOT TORTURE.
Nor is head dunking! DROWNING IS SOMETHING COMPLETELY WRONG.
A prehistoric con somewhere in the ancient past must have thought the Kumbaya dig was real clever and cute because for generations of cons since they decided to kick back and do nothing having achieved the pinnacle of con evolution in that one pitiful little insult - Kumbaya. Funny, the Kumbaya mantra has today actually become the cons' Kumbaya. But rather than toasting marshmallows over the fire they're lurking in the shadows in Rambo gear and makeup waiting to blast the bogeyman. Nothing like blowing away mosquitos with automatic firearms. I guess the cons don't have too much else going on in their ho hum mediochre lives now that they have evolved to their full potential. And so, whether it be through lack of effort or inability, I can't quite tell, cons simply haven't had an original idea since then. Kumbaya to you too, Mr Locky Lock. (This was for your previous comment).
So if it's no big deal why all the lying and sneaking around?
Doen't be so critical. I've changed my mind after reading http://www.yrand.com/administration-and-cabinet...
>>>they aren't U.S. Citizens
So anyone anywhere who is not a US citizen is a potential victim?
Surely you also know a few US traitors, some long-term foreign US residents, a few deadly domestic enemies who would be eminently suitable for a little practice "treatment"? What's stopping you getting started?
>>>and suspected of trying to kill you.
On hearsay evidence?
>>>Not just rounded up at random!
Indeed! For the most part SOLD to the US for reward money.
Poor people, tribal enmities, some guy wants another one's wife..
All of these are far more likely reasons for incarceration at Guantanamo and other torture camps than any terrorist connections
>>>a little head dunking and head slapping never killed anybody
Indeed. But that is NOT what's been happening.
Your lack of knowledge and information makes it sound like YOU live in a cave in a third world country.
''Guy, they aren't U.S. Citizens and suspected of trying to kill you. Not just rounded up at random! There's a reason for the stop! ''
I could be wrong but this appears to be a kind of flip side to the thinking about wiretapping and privacy invasion: 'if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about'
Underlying both scenarios, rounding up non-US citizens, and listening to peoples phone calls, is a kind of 'if they are innocent they have nothing to worry about' deal, and a suspension of assumption of innocence [why arrest people or eavesdrop if you think someone's innocent?]
so you can say those people are not 'rounded up at random' [tho how you would know that I can't say] and that 'there's a reason for the stop', but this is only authoritarian faith in our government.
Why?
Because without a doubt we can't be sure who all these people are and what they have done, not without some sort of quasi-legal process, so how in the Billy-be-damned can you say 'there's a reason', except on faith that the government wouldn't detain, torture or annoy anybody without good cause?
and the old, 'these guys aren't US citizens so rules schmoolz and tough titty on them' thing kind of grates on my ears like hypocrisy. 'we're here to bring you democracy and detain you at will if we feel like'? we'll give you some democracy but hands off those other trappings of liberty. we make the rules now...
Not a member? Sign-up today!
adrielh791966
hatukabu
slashup67
nopatacious
rhettdejesus1975
infiniteseo
stwor
Dorothyalmon
Raiderwall
splitrch
onlyonesecret
scriblerus1
1basque1
Poodledo
Dan and Jennifer
jesswart
Dobes_Rule
Grrr
juvel
johnny420
Charlson
DarkWizard
Ciera Marie
aframerindio
1bluepen1
shiftside
pinkredapples
datemypets
lovemuffins
2dogs1cat
affordability
maria_christina
bigtreehouse
tonedeaf
BBking67
endtyranny
saadhusain
jpike76
butafore
ouijmeister
bobhiggins
scott4261
jaern
mntnman444
sandyenglish
Modesty
293)
If these interrogation techniques constitue torture, then the CIA, the Justice Department, and the White House owe the American people and the subject of these interrogation techniques more than merely an explanation and an apology.
What they deserve is jail time.. but lets show them how its properly done. No torture, no coerced statements, let them see what its suppose to be like in the USA.
Sorry! Wrong button! Hang Dick and George high! They are the true terrorists. They have made us stoop to their level. We will never recover from this black eye Bush's administration has given us. The world sees us as murderers.
hamy,
Some fix is necessary. The world does not see this that way. Some may do, most do not as they know Americans are not murderers.
It is up to the Great American people, up to the brave and up to the free to prove it and wash the dirty torture spit off the noble face of an honourable, highly respected, most straightforward and honest nation.
The torture topic is so broadly dicussed to provoke hatred towards the American people, to build up this people a disgusting image, to make others fight the most brutal way and to make Americans respond this same way.
Gunfodder guaranteed. Profeteers are gaining profit on tortures, wars and dirt...
http://pic.gwafi.com http://games.gwafi.com http://myweb.gwafi.com
Deathray, thank you so very much for posting this so we can see what a group of scoundrels there are in power now, but the reality is the Red Cross, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and other large, credible NGO's have been documenting and sending vociferous demands to the White House that all this is clearly illegal and has to stop. This has happened from just a month or two after we invaded Afghanistan way back in early 2002 and I don't believe it has stopped yet.
I don't know why the people that directed the torture are not in jail and removed from office. It has been years now since many were tortured, brutalized, even killed, but nothing happens as a result. Reports of reliable NGO's go on deaf ears. Reports by whistleblower soldiers, mercenaries and contractors as to the torture, severe prisoner mistreatment, death of innocent civilians goes unheard of and unnoticed.
It's all in the name of National Security. And it's 1000% fine by this taxpayer.
To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin; He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither. He was referring to people like you Locky.
Not only does he deserve neither. Nations that sacrifice liberty for security GET neither. Germany under Hitler. Italy under Mussolini. Russia under Stalin. North Korea under Kim Il-sung. China under Mao. Cambodia under Pol Pot. Russia again today under Putin.
Why are the Radical Right blind to the fact that their own government is closer, more powerful and a lot more of a potential threat than some guys hiding in caves in Pakistan?
The number one problem facing America today is the restoration of Constitutional Law, and it's not even on the agenda of any candidate except Ron Paul.
When I find out I can't vote anymore I'll believe you. I doubt that Stalin or most of the dictators you mention were voted in by true democratic elections. I'll take my government over the cave dweller. The constitution has already been changed by you libs and your ACLU to the point it is barely recognizable. P.S. I'm looking for 0-15. I didn't neg you because you made a clear statement of your opinion and without name calling!! Oh, and I like Ron Paul.
''When I find out I can't vote anymore I'll believe you''
by then it will be too late. what happened to the 'we need to stop the muslim hordes before they get too strong like we needed to stop hitler before he got too strong prevention worth a pound of cure' rhetoric?
each journey begins with single steps. don't expect totalitarianism to just start tap-dancing on your forehead one morning
or as my brother-in-law says, 'jump in a tub of too hot water and you jump right back out-but what if the water is heated while you're in it, a degree every hour? At what point do you scream?'
The Slow Boiling Frog Story. Unknowingly acclimatizing to fascism.
I think 65% of the people are intelligent enough in the US to realize what was happening and try to get out. It's the 35% that will boil.
"When I find out I can't vote anymore I'll believe you."
What do you think happened to thousands of people that tried to vote in the last two presidential election?? Polls for some people were so congested that people could not get in to vote and for many their names were removed from the rolls so they had to cast a provisional ballot which wasn't counted. In other polling places, the polls were closed before everyone had a chance to vote even though the election board was at fault. So they were in reality denied the right to vote and it could happen to you.
Constitution changed by libs?? Hardly. The ACLU, whether you like it or not, is doing what they think is meant in the Constitution. If they were wrong, they would have lost their cases. I personally don't like everything that they have done but I can accept it.
Reminds me of my dad. Whenever I was driving and he was in the passenger seat of my car he had this peculiar habit of stomping hard on an imaginary brake pedal every few seconds. I used to joke about putting in a dummy pedal just to keep him happy. Voting is now just about the same and just as effective as a dummy brake pedal. It makes you think you're having an effect when it's really beyond your control.
tired
You obviously have no idea what the ACLU does. You obviously care more about party politics than the constitution.
Torture is Unamerican.
Perhaps you should volunteer as a torturer.
Then when everything comes around, as everything does, you can be on the receiving end too.
IF you survive that then please come back and tell us which you enjoyed more - giving or receiving.
On tne meantime, if you want to put your money where your mouth is, you should send regular large checks to the WH torture fund.
That would indeed make you a fine taxpayer.
Locky12----Paranoia and delusion running amok.
Locky12
>>It's all in the name of National Security. And it's 1000% fine by this taxpayer.
So when another country deems you a threat, kidnaps you out of your nice midwestern (or wherever) home, extraordinarily renders you to a 3rd country, and you're tortured & abused to strengthen this other country's national security, you won't have a problem with that. Right?
Or, if W for some odd reason decides that YOU are an enemy combatant because of a misread eMail you sent to someone - possibly as a joke - & you're shipped to Gitmo & tortured, you'll be honored to have been sacrificed in the name of National Security. Correct?
those are the same people who think not having Habeas Corpus is no problem....
yeah, it's a problem.
Locky: I know you didn't read the NYT article, & it was so long I'll bet few did. The stupid paper should have at least narrowed down this point;
The CIA torture teams feared reprisals because they were illegally told to torture people, and they knew it was illegal.
So they sent the suspects to Saudi's and Egyptians....contracted with them, actually. Using MY $$$.
In 2002, gonzales sent the CIA the 'bibee' memo (sp), saying in his 'opinion' torture was legal.
Bush loved that gonzo went along with his plans, & wanted to make him attorney general. But gee, Congress wasn't in a good mood about the torture stuff, so two days before New Years Eve, of 2004, bush told his famous lie that we don't torture, we don't solicit other country's for torture, blah blah blah.
In 05, Gonzales was confirmed, everyone feeling confidant that the 'torture' issue was behind us.
Two weeks later, gonzales reinstated torture, SECRETLY. In a memo, he told the CIA to ignore Congress.
Continued: IGNORE CONGESS! THE BODY THAT MAKES OUR LAWS! THIS PIECE OF DIRT TOLD THE CIA TO IGNORE ITS OWN GOVERNMENT! HE PUT HIMSELF ABOVE OUR LAWS!!! HE BROKE OUR LAWS!!! You don't like our laws, locky? What does that make you, locky? Can you guess? What would you call a person who tries to usurp his government, locky? hmmmm?
I don't know who you are....
you're not the same person posting the other day...
I actually agree with everything you said....
WOW.....
DR - I'm certain that you means subjectS in your opening statement.
Not nitpicking - it shifts the meaning considerably.
Yes, that's correct. Thanks for the clarification. You all know I can't type.
That's why I thought I should make a typo on my msg too! :)